is improving inevitable

Fluffster

Fluffster

Active Member
i put in roughly an hour a day practising along to metronome, recording it and playing it back to check on mistakes. i do worry that little tiny mistakes will always plague me no matter what because of whatever, all the alcoholism and glue sniffing i did as a teenager and getting dropped on my head as a 5yo . ha ha. maybe theres a bit of bruised grey matter in there.
anyway i have improved in the last year kind of and ive had a bit of a breakthrough with my bass drum foot very recently. im definitely better kind of. but i guess im impatient to be able to play at least simple beats perfectly every single time.
its odd that i actually seem to be a more reliable player with more complex beats its when its playing slow steady and simple beats especially at lower volume that i seem to show the most signs of sloppiness.
im never gonna give up in any case and my ambition isnt exactly world domination, its just simply to play with feel and be great at keeping time. bernard purdie is the target and i'll be happy if i get even a quarter as good as that.
so my question is do some people just hit a wall of not being able to improve no matter how much they practice because of whatever. mental illness or not having the drumming gene or something.?.
 
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I think there's a point after all the practicing, studying and listening you accept yourself and how you fit in with a band. Those books and lessons and all the listening is up there on the stand with you but you make the decisions

So not (so much) a matter of (not being able to) improve (which of course you do when you put time in) but of acceptance this is who am I am let's see if I sink or swim..

And with that the confidence builds
(or someone hollers "should a took up flute ; )
 
Keep it at. Think of it like making a fine wine - you ferment it then age it. Point is it takes time- you’re in fermenting stage now. Fermentation itself a simple process but it takes knowledge to do well. You can get there by trial and error or cut to the chase and learn from a master- take lessons. I did trial and error so my progress measured over decades. I reckon a good teacher would have cut that a lot. Gaining good independence and dexterity in all your limbs is key and what will allow you to play - so practicing rudiments or going through books will help achieve that ability. The aging process you learn how to apply what you’ve learned/attained in tasteful musical ways to interact with other musicians and also contribute. It’s always a journey of learning. I was lucky to gig with some seasoned pro musicians that I learned the most and it really pushed me not to let them down. So though you may feel inadequate (I still do) the experience will push you forward to meet challenges.
 
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I've worked out of a lot of books, played along with records and practiced my rudiments and so on and it all helps, but when I've made huge leaps forward is whenever I work with a teacher. Don't worry about the wall, your teacher will knock that sucker down. Find a teacher, take a lesson, if you click take more. You'll love it.
 
There have been many times that my instructor has given me something new. I struggled with it for weeks. Then one day I sat down, and "magically" played it. We (I) can get very self critical. My instructor always sees my improvement before I do.
With practice, we get better. Whether we see it immediately, or not.
 
I’m at a point where I’m learning that making mistakes is part of the game. Though we strive to minimize them in terms of severity and frequency. The important part (for me right now) is not losing the groove when you miss a kick or flub a fill.

Recording yourself helps.
 
here. just a clip of a bit of practice.

hey hey hey

Listen to this track for free on Whyp.
whyp.it whyp.it
bearing in mind i was ultra concentrating here, i could probably concentrate harder with a few monster drinks in me but it does go to show that if my mind wanders then i start really playing badly
when i tried to make the foot pattern more complex things started going wrong.
anyway thats where im at.
 
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I feel like progression any activity has peaks, valleys and plateaus....that is Balance. And you can't be out of balance to exist.

no one just continually moves "upward" in their progress

if my double bass playing gets better, my marimba playing falls backwards a bit b/c of the time spent on double bass. The abilities individually ebb and flow about the same, so that does not bother me

I find that when i hit a plateau, it is usually because I have lost sight of the target goal, or have spent too long on one topic. Time away helps refresh the brain. Or finding a new way to reapply the activity that was stagnating

I have been playing/practicing drums since I was 4 years old....so 50 years. I have had all kinds of ups and downs in that time. i have never been discouraged by any of them honestly....well, when I got older. As a kid, the impatience of youth sometimes got the better of me...but never enough to quit..it usually resulted in learning something incorrect, and then having to redo it later
 
Fluffster said:
do some people just hit a wall of not being able to improve no matter how much they practice because of whatever. mental illness or not having the drumming gene or something.?.
Click to expand...

It's very common to plateau in learning. If I work on something for a few days, and it's not even close to coming together, I'll change up my practice plans and work on something else with the intention of revisiting it. When I revisit it, I'm usually not doing as poorly as I thought I was.

I will have to say that I can learn more in playing 10 minutes with other people as opposed to an hour by myself, so I try to get together with other players as much as I can.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
I will have to say that I can learn more in playing 10 minutes with other people as opposed to an hour by myself, so I try to get together with other players as much as I can.
Click to expand...

that made me think that i am the opposite....I learn more in 10 minutes of by myself than in years of playing with people...

but I apply the learned skills by playing with people....

and every opportunity is a learning opportunity, so really, there is no time wasted!!!
 
jda said:
I think there's a point after all the practicing, studying and listening you accept yourself and how you fit in with a band. Those books and lessons and all the listening is up there on the stand with you but you make the decisions

So not (so much) a matter of (not being able to) improve (which of course you do when you put time in) but of acceptance this is who am I am let's see if I sink or swim..

And with that the confidence builds
(or someone hollers "should a took up flute ; )
Click to expand...
I partially agree with most of the above statement.
The partially part is due to the fact that drumming is not as difficult as say.... sports.
I for example know that I can be really good at playing basketball, I also know that I will NEVER be as good as Michael Jordan, but in drumming, with very few exceptions, you can practice to be able to play most of that you set your mind to, you don't have to have special abilities or be gifted with special talent to do that.
Like anything in life, if you do it repeatedly (practice it), it would be impossible not to get better.
Now if your definition of better is added knowledge, then it is possible to not get further because you never bother to study or practice anything else but what you do practice will still become easier the more you do it.
 
Lots of common sense & good suggestions above.

We'll all offer our opinions, so you'll need to decide what's the way YOU want to improve.

IMHO, the best way is to take some 1-to-1 lessons with an experienced teacher (Google them in your local area for reviews/feedback)...
He or she will identify areas you're struggling with, & come up with a plan whereby you can monitor your progress.
If drums were an easy instrument to play, there'd be millions of Buddy Rich -standard drummers. The fact that it's HARD makes it all the more satisfying when you reach your personal milestones. Also, if you get some proper guidance, you won't have to unlearn any bad habits you might otherwise pick up.

Keep at it, & good luck!
 
Fluffster said:
i guess im impatient to be able to play at least simple beats perfectly every single time.

its odd that i actually seem to be a more reliable player with more complex beats its when its playing slow steady and simple beats especially at lower volume that i seem to show the most signs of sloppiness.

so my question is do some people just hit a wall of not being able to improve no matter how much they practice because of whatever. mental illness or not having the drumming gene or something.?.
Click to expand...

Improvement isn't inevitable-- if you're missing the boat on some critical concept, you're not going to figure it out by doing something totally wrong a lot. Terrible technique doesn't automatically become good technique, no time concept doesn't become good time concept.

Since you've been playing awhile, improving probably means you have to give up some things-- they way you're used to playing, including some the things you like about the way you play. Like what is it about the way you're hitting the drums that interferes with you being able to play more quietly? What are you doing that interferes with playing something slow and steady, what's missing that would help you do that?

You would have to look at those things, or pay someone to look at them, and probably the answer means giving up something you like, or doing it an a way you're not used to, which may seem like starting all over again.
 
@Fluffster
"Is improving inevitable?"

If you consider that at least 99 percent of the people who buy a drum kit can't play anything other than the "Money Beat" and a couple of simple fills we could really deduce that: "improvement is highly avoidable".
 
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Fluffster said:
i put in roughly an hour a day practising along to metronome, recording it and playing it back to check on mistakes. i do worry that little tiny mistakes will always plague me no matter what because of whatever, all the alcoholism and glue sniffing i did as a teenager and getting dropped on my head as a 5yo . ha ha. maybe theres a bit of bruised grey matter in there.
anyway i have improved in the last year kind of and ive had a bit of a breakthrough with my bass drum foot very recently. im definitely better kind of. but i guess im impatient to be able to play at least simple beats perfectly every single time.
its odd that i actually seem to be a more reliable player with more complex beats its when its playing slow steady and simple beats especially at lower volume that i seem to show the most signs of sloppiness.
im never gonna give up in any case and my ambition isnt exactly world domination, its just simply to play with feel and be great at keeping time. bernard purdie is the target and i'll be happy if i get even a quarter as good as that.
so my question is do some people just hit a wall of not being able to improve no matter how much they practice because of whatever. mental illness or not having the drumming gene or something.?.
Click to expand...
Yes. There have literally been years where I didn’t get any better. Then something will be incrementally better, and then I’ll skip back again. I think Billy Cobham said it best that every time you sit down at the kit to do anything, it should be FUN. When drumming is sometimes a job, it’s the last place I want to be some days.
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
"Is improving inevitable?"

If you consider that at least 99 percent of the people who buy a drum kit can't play anything other than the "Money Beat" and a couple of simple fills we could really deduce that: "improvement is highly avoidable".
Click to expand...
This can also be a double-edged phrase because for a lot of money-making bands, money beats and simple fills are all that’s necessary to make a lot of $$$. Jazz noodling and fusion playing are all cool until you consider maybe 80% of those players are playing in their parents basement approaching their 50s 😂😂
 
What I found is earlier on one practices Stickings. This are the few ways I'll do a 2 a 4 a 5 a 6 a 7 an 8 and 9........
till ...Kingdom come.

And then "Later on" I mean way later "your mind" starts hearing things "those stickings don't accommodate" So you're stuck with a conundrum (pun)

And here in the "later late years" is the way out. After all that conditioning and all that practicing ("muscle memory")

You have to drop "what your hands know" and shift to a "time frame"
meaning
I want to include (mental thought) into this Space in between these (time) guardrails these notes......... and I'm going to let my hands "go" ("set my people free!") go for it (knowing retaining the figure 'in your' mind..

And with the rhythm frame "thought" in my head Go forward and hope like hell my Hands accomplish (or at least imply) the "my" mission.

So in other words technique moves from a muscle/ hand "thing" to a "mental" (not abandoning all the "muscle") "approach"..
You lean mental in your expressions (retaining a chunk of the old "hand" boundaries) but with a new loose ethereal chancy hand implying expression

Time runs out

And you can't always wait for your "hands" ("exercise training") to catch up with what
you have in mind..

It's a do or die but if you can imply (and imply well..
you may succeed in conveying to others your thought and intentions

Your hands have to kinda "forget stuff" and let your free mind time/frame guide the space you want to fill
(on top of that solid base from long ago)

It's almost picturesque playing
Cause Times running out (constantly)
and you can't (go out) being locked (into) and one's need to progress
against "the Clock"..
 
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Bo Eder said:
This can also be a double-edged phrase because for a lot of money-making bands, money beats and simple fills are all that’s necessary to make a lot of $$$. Jazz noodling and fusion playing are all cool until you consider maybe 80% of those players are playing in their parents basement approaching their 50s
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1) The first problem you have is that the question is about improving and not about making money.

2) The second is that guys who can play better can also play Money Beat and Simple Fills (just to give examples, Vinnie, Gadd, Weckl, to mention welknown ones who have done wellknown gigs of that type).

3) The third is you should ask yourself for example WHERE ARE AND HOW THEY PLAY the guys who are around 80 years old in the xxxx style comparing with their jazz counterpart (Cobham, Gadd, DeJohnette, Harvey Mason, etc.)

4) Also I want to know where are playing 80% of the guys who bought a drumset and can "only play the MONEY BEAT and a couple of fills"... making money? I don´t think, hahaha..
 
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