Vintage vs. New

acsunda

acsunda

Well-known Member
Hey guys, I'm on the hunt again for my next kit and I am conflicted. I love vintage drums, and have several 60's/70's Rogers and Slingerland kits bookmarked. But I'm also looking at these Pork Pie Hip Pig kits in the duco finishes. What I like about them is the vintage style and the center-point beavertail lugs and of course the duco finishes. I'm also a big fan of C&C kits, which are out of my price range. These Hip Pigs look a lot like those C&C kits. What do you guys think, should I go with a vintage Rogers or Slingerland, or go with a modern, vintage looking Pork Pie at a much better price?
 
In general, if you could get a new drum for less cost than its vintage counterpart, I'll call it a no-brainer. The new drums are much better built, with vastly higher chance of shells staying in round and hardware not slipping or stripping.
The problem in this specific case is, with the lauan (EDIT: my bad, it's nato wood) shells, the Hip Pigs are not exactly the equivalent to Rogerses or Slingerlands. So the above rule might not apply.
 
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FWIW the hip pig kits aren't luan, they are nato (eastern) mahogany. It doesn't come from the Shorea family.
I, however, cannot speak to it's tonal properties having never heard or played one of these kits.

en.wikipedia.org

Nato wood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
someguy01 said:
FWIW the hip pig kits aren't luan, they are nato (eastern) mahogany. It doesn't come from the Shorea family.
I, however, cannot speak to it's tonal properties having never heard or played one of these kits.

en.wikipedia.org

Nato wood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Oops, my bad. I just assumed it's a cheap mahogany used in lower-end guitars, and lauan is a cheap mahogany used in lower-end drums. I've heard some people actually prefer the Nato sound to more expensive African mahogany used in guitars!
This way I guess it's a further bonus point for the new kit.
 
Iristone said:
Oops, my bad. I just assumed it's a cheap mahogany used in lower-end guitars, and lauan is a cheap mahogany used in lower-end drums. I've heard some people actually prefer the Nato sound to more expensive African mahogany used in guitars!
This way I guess it's a further bonus point for the new kit.
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I only know because I looked into one of those hip pig kits and wanted to know more about it's construction. I always look into any new drum that says it's made from mahogany.
 
Iristone said:
In general, if you could get a new drum for less cost than its vintage counterpart, I'll call it a no-brainer. The new drums are much better built, with vastly higher chance of shells staying in round and hardware not slipping or stripping.
The problem in this specific case is, with the lauan shells, the Hip Pigs are not exactly the equivalent to Rogerses or Slingerlands. So the above rule might not apply.
Click to expand...

As for the overall quality, I can't find a bad review of the Hip Pigs. They seem to be quite popular with the small minority who play them. They are around $1100 new, and used they go for under $1k.
 
acsunda said:
. . . should I go with a vintage Rogers or Slingerland, or go with a modern, vintage looking Pork Pie at a much better price?
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I like the peace of mind that accompanies new gear, and I also like that new gear requires no work. I'm willing to pay more for it for those reasons. In this case, however, you'll be saving money by going new. That's a sweeping win in my book. Unless you can only find gratification in a truly old kit, the Pork Pie seems the more welcoming option to me.

Suggestion: Get the Pork Pie and keep it for thirty years. It will then be vintage by default. Problem solved and money saved.
 
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Hip Pigs are great little kits. And Bill Detamore is doing a great job in coming close to replication of that "vintage" tone. But ...... he's working within a certain price point. And the main deviation to save money, is he's using a straight shell.

The Rogers and Slingerland kits (60's/70's) you're looking at had thin shells with reinforcement rings. And while you can find these shells still being made (Chicago Drum Co. and Stone Custom for Slingerland .... and the new Rogers Covington), they're pricey. So is the Ludwig Legacy, with replicates they're old 3 ply w/re-ring shell.

So ...... do you love vintage drums or do you LOVE vintage drums, is the question. I'm in the later category. My Luddie 3 plys and my Gretsch RB kit, They're my keepers.

I'd go vintage, if you have the money and the desire.
 
harryconway said:
Hip Pigs are great little kits. And Bill Detamore is doing a great job in coming close to replication of that "vintage" tone. But ...... he's working within a certain price point. And the main deviation to save money, is he's using a straight shell.

The Rogers and Slingerland kits (60's/70's) you're looking at had thin shells with reinforcement rings. And while you can find these shells still being made (Chicago Drum Co. and Stone Custom for Slingerland .... and the new Rogers Covington), they're pricey. So is the Ludwig Legacy, with replicates they're old 3 ply w/re-ring shell.

So ...... do you love vintage drums or do you LOVE vintage drums, is the question. I'm in the later category. My Luddie 3 plys and my Gretsch RB kit, They're my keepers.

I'd go vintage, if you have the money and the desire.
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I guess for me it's more the vibe than the sound of vintage drums (though I dig the sound too). So that's sort of what led me to new drums with a vintage look.
 
acsunda said:
I guess for me it's more the vibe than the sound of vintage drums (though I dig the sound too). So that's sort of what led me to new drums with a vintage look.
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I feel that way about cymbals as well. I'd rather get new cymbals that have classic elements than canvass the used market for vintage cymbals that have been struck by perhaps hundreds of players over a fifty-year span. Creating my own history with gear appeals to me more than adopting someone else's history.

Even so, I do understand the allure of older stuff to many players. Sometimes there's a sound or look you can't get in a new product; other times, a bygone drum or cymbal is an emblem of nostalgia, which is reasonable too. The choice between vintage and new is really just a function of what you're after.
 
acsunda said:
I guess for me it's more the vibe than the sound of vintage drums (though I dig the sound too). So that's sort of what led me to new drums with a vintage look.
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Then the Hip Pig is a winner, especially at that price. The re-issued Ludwig Club Dates SE are really good, if you can find one. They came out around 2012. The gum/cherry wood hybrid shell with the full roundover bearing edges really hit the mark. https://www.ludwig-drums.com/application/files/9714/6531/8351/AV8149.pdf
 
harryconway said:
Then the Hip Pig is a winner, especially at that price. The re-issued Ludwig Club Dates SE are really good, if you can find one. They came out around 2012. The gum/cherry wood hybrid shell with the full roundover bearing edges really hit the mark. https://www.ludwig-drums.com/application/files/9714/6531/8351/AV8149.pdf
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Yeah I like those Club Dates, but they are pretty scarce and a bit pricier than the Hip Pigs (with good reason, but still). Guitar Center has had a few used Club Dates for sale on their for a while, but they seem to have sold.
 
Here's what the Reverb offerings are:
reverb.com

Hip Pig | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.
reverb.com reverb.com
 
acsunda said:
Yep, really considering that one with the two floor toms!
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If you do decide on one, please let us (me) know how you like it and how it sounds.
 
Iristone said:
Lauan is a cheap mahogany used in lower-end drums. I've heard some people actually prefer the Nato sound to more expensive African mahogany used in guitars!
Click to expand...
My Gretsch Catalina Club Rock kit is made from this stuff & I actually like the sound more than better, harder mahogany.
If I wanted a really bright sounding kit (that harder woods tend to do), I'll get an acrylic.
 
acsunda said:
Yep, really considering that one with the two floor toms!
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That's a sweet kit. I'm a two floor tom guy, also. Kinda my "default" set up. Every time I buy a 4 piece kit, then It's always search mode for a matching 2nd floor tom. Sometimes I find 'em ..... sometimes I don't.
 
I love old kits too, I even own one. But the search will be difficult. What you get with a new kit is round shells, and slightly undersized, and great bearings edges. You can read-cut edges on a vintage kit, but you can’t make it round again. If you want vintage without the headache, go new Hip Pig, or Classic Ludwig.
 
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