Recording and sharing with an E-kit

[skeletonwitch]

I'm thinking about getting an E kit

1- what is the most affordable but acceptable quality option? I'm working on a metal project, so it would need to hold up and support a double pedal. I'm thinking used and would like to stay around $500 if at all possible. But if there's a huge difference maybe $1K is doable.

2- what is required for recording and sharing, possibly layering with others? My bass player is 2 hrs away so it would be great to share thoughts between sessions

3- If we want to have a low volume jam, we just need a headphone mixer to play together with headphones?

Thanks

 

[electrodrummer]

1. The one you play, like the sound of, like the feel of, has the features you want and fits your budget.... and doesn't have an evil proprietary cable snake, obs Double kick - pretty much anything - but as this is an ekit it's more flexible and can be cheaper to use two single pedals and two kick pads. (unless you already own a double kick pedal!). A 2nd user Yamaha or Roland - many will suggest - will give longevity, whereas Medeli-derived kits can be a bit more fragile.

2. A "DAW" - Digital Audio Workstation. Simplest probably BandLab[1] (bandlab.com) - totally free, runs in a browser and has collaborative features for when you all want to work on the same thing. Every feature you will ever want can be gained from Cakewalk[2], been around for decades and also free - and now owned by the BandLab company - get from the same site - even comes with a bunch of software instruments, including a 30 kit drum synth if you wanna do that sort of thing. .

3. Plug everything into a mixer with enough inputs for all your instruments, then use a headphone mixer (can be as cheap as a Behringer HA400). Or a good option is a bunch of Yamaha SessionCakes[3] - one per band member (nice way to spread costs!) and daisy-chain them up.

--
[1] BandLab



[2] Cakewalk



[3] SessionCakes

 

[ColdFusion]

used and would like to stay around $500 if at all possible. But if there's a huge difference maybe $1K is doable.

A 2nd user Yamaha or Roland - many will suggest - will give longevity

I'm glad I spent a little extra for a used "topline" E-kit. $1000 sounds about right actually.

Great value if you find a Yamaha or Roland used, like a discontinued model. I got a used TD-11 KVX for $650/700 ish + extra cymbal trigger + speaker + cables. Maybe a grand-ish, rounded up a little. Great value though, even the little TD-11s were like $1500 when they were released.

Higher end brands are super durable. Look the one you are getting over carefully, and as long as it was treated nicely it should serve you well. I've been shredding and recording on my used TD-11 daily for over two years and it's still a cherry machine. I've had no big problems with hot spots or sensitivity. I love the versatility. The "heavy metal" kits are pretty dope. Like a super articulate blast kick sound and heavy trashy chopper stacks.

For recording on a budget: I don't even have a proper laptop workstation or a DAW, but check out how versatile an E-kit is even without that stuff:

I have a Roland synthesizer that plugs directly into my V-Drums, out from my V-Drums to an amp and a handy recorder for recording jams.

I can also plug my smartphone directly into my V-Drums for tracking collaborative mixes. If my collab partner sends me a track or a riff, I can play it from my phone literally through the E-Kit and add my playalong drum track in real time.
The Roland has a "quick record" button which saves my drum track onto the E-kit itself, which I then can upload to google drive for sharing with collab partners.

So many possibilities with a good E-Kit.

 

[skeletonwitch]

Thanks for all that info! Things sure have changed over the years. Looks like just getting the e-kit is obviously step one, but then a ton of options for fairly simple recording and sharing. Anyone ever use a digital TASCAM 4 track? Or is that old tech?

Looking into it further, it seems to me like the bass drum trigger pad will be a big thing for me. I'm only a year in to using a double pedal and I don't want to develop bad habits due to a different rebound off of a pad. I like the idea of a mesh, but those look awfully spending for the bass drum.

Thanks again this has really pushed me forward on this path.

 

[electrodrummer]

Thanks for all that info! Things sure have changed over the years. Looks like just getting the e-kit is obviously step one, but then a ton of options for fairly simple recording and sharing. Anyone ever use a digital TASCAM 4 track? Or is that old tech?

Looking into it further, it seems to me like the bass drum trigger pad will be a big thing for me. I'm only a year in to using a double pedal and I don't want to develop bad habits due to a different rebound off of a pad. I like the idea of a mesh, but those look awfully spending for the bass drum.

Thanks again this has really pushed me forward on this path.

4-track? not for a few decades But, yes, you can use, obviously - it doesn't care what audio you shove into it!

Mesh can be bouncy and far from Mylar. But "feel" is a very very very personal thing and totally down to you try stuff out. I prefer rubber kicks, for example.

Don't forget - this is an ekit and not an acoustic - different instruments

 

[ColdFusion]

Anyone ever use a digital TASCAM 4 track? Or is that old tech?

Oh yeah you can use any old thing with a 1/4" or 1/8" input. I use a Zoom H4N handy recorder, nothing fancy.

My little TD-11 has L and R (1/4" TRS/TS) output, and an 1/8" input for music tracks.
Also, the 1/4" headphone jack is cool cuz you can use it as an output for recording, while using the L and R outputs for monitoring/live sound. Or vice versa.

I'm actually thinking about getting a used KD-85 bass pad so I can start playing double kick on my own V-drums.

Your concerns about the double pedal surfaces are natural.
But I wouldn't stress too much about the surfaces/feels of your double kick pads. If you really put in the work you'll be good playing on anything. I do most of my double bass practicing on rubber practice kick pads.
My V-kit came with a silly little KD-9 single trigger thing. Nothing like a bass drum. Not even proper mesh response. But it's plenty sensitive and I can still smash with it.

As long as you spend some time each week playing double kick on your acoustic drums too, there's no reason to think you'll be unprepared to play well on any particular surface.

If you do upgrade to a mesh pad for your double kick, someone might try to upsell you on the even bigger kick pad, since it's got a "deluxe" feel with some extra foam inside.
The more basic pads will do the job though, if you do your part as a player. My advice generally is to stick close-ish to your budget and enjoy the decent stuff available in that price range.

 

[ColdFusion]

@skeletonwitch,

You maybe already saw this, but I posted in another thread with a little further context of the workflow of recording with a V-kit, with photos:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/...pened-to-electronic-drums.175030/post-1884780

Also, there is one possible challenge to recording e-drums with a smaller device (like a Zoom or maybe the Tascam).

It's actually like the Achilles heel of the whole thing. Good e-drums have great low end. Deep, punchy bass, sub sounds, delicious. But my handy recorders hate the low frequency. Clipping and distortion. Distortion where there shouldn't be. At medium-loud volumes, in the kick drum and in the low toms. By the time I have the clipping toned down, through various tweaks on the TD-11, I can sometimes barely hear the kick anymore.

Fear not though, there is a sweet spot where you can record decent drum tracks with just a mini recorder, but I have to mention this, since it's caused me so much grief, lol.

Edit: If you are going to be playing heavy metal, you actually have a broader no-clipping sweet spot for recording. The "Heavy Metal Kick" sound relies more on articulation than sheer low end, so will be heard through the mix better, even if you have to turn down the LF.

 

[SVBJECT]

Question 1

I bought an eDRUMin10 to go with a cheap kit and it's great, I think the best budget option that I've seen.

Get the cheapest pads that you can work with (feel wise) make doesn't matter, if you can patch the kit together with second hand go for it if its cheaper.

No need for a drumbrain.

Get one of these.

Laptop (assume you have one capable and this isn't in the budget, obviously if you need one youll break the 1k mark, but then again, new laptop)

Job done.

Future perks include you can upgrade with absolute impunity towards the brands. If you want to add roland bits, you can, if you want to switch some things out for yamaha, fine!
Also the end interface for putting in samples etc is as ergonomic as a laptop, not some irritating little box.
Can run any vsts you can get etc...

Question 2.

My guitar/vocalist and I practice when we can but we're sharing stuff all the time.
I can record basically at the hit of a button, as can he at his homestudio (vox/guitar/synths).
It's all on headphones but changing that is the push of another button.
Sharing, we just have a band cloud and both our daws save to it. The closer our set ups are the smoother that is, we share a lot of plug-ins so any drums I create* I send to him and it'll sound identical and visa versa.
*We right most things in MIDI first and then learn it. Means we have a full demo to listen to, get to know and enjoy, or a backing with a no drums mix for me to practice with, a no guitar/vox mix for him, and a band rehearsal mix of no vox/guitar/drums. If he still hasn't got the guitar to vox polyrythm down (he's not a drummer ok? I'm trying!) Then we'll leave vox in the band backing track for a session etc. All we both have to do is keep doing takes until its better than the MIDI!

Question 3

Yes. Don't skimp. We used cheap rubbish splitters a lot when younger. It's not worth it. I used to have a great old novation soundcard with 2 independent headphone Jack's, that was handy if your on the market for a audio interface as well, but otherwise get a powered headphone mixer.

As long as its just bass and edrums youll probably be okay without a mixing desk too, but once you add any vox, guitar, backing (or click) from a third source you'll probably want to look at a small mixing desk or bigger audio interface.