The tempo is wrong!!

Duck Tape

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
I work with a musician who likes to say that the song is the wrong tempo at rehearsal and they're simply wrong, it has happened several times where someone has pulled out a phone and played the song for reference and I was bang on, if 5bpm out. I think they just like saying it as a reflex or to look clever or something and it gets on my nerves.

Despite me believing in my tempo accuracy the more they question me the less confident I become when I count off the song and then I am more likely to get it wrong and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy or something.

How do you brush off/shut down these comments? Like, we don't tell them they're playing the wrong mode or whatever because they would say "oh you're just a drummer what do you know?"
 
Tempo discussions were pretty common in my previous band.
Playing classic rock/pop songs, my opinion is it matters less compared to other genres.
It's also the vibe of the moment, audience reaction, etc which dictates it.
The more adrenaline, the higher the tempo seems to be.

I used a Tempo Ref in the past to check and correct, without discussing.
Next rehearsal I want to try a (silent) metronome to set the initial tempo and then let it be.
 
Duck Tape said:
I work with a musician who likes to say that the song is the wrong tempo at rehearsal and they're simply wrong, it has happened several times where someone has pulled out a phone and played the song for reference and I was bang on, if 5bpm out. I think they just like saying it as a reflex or to look clever or something and it gets on my nerves.

Despite me believing in my tempo accuracy the more they question me the less confident I become when I count off the song and then I am more likely to get it wrong and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy or something.

How do you brush off/shut down these comments? Like, we don't tell them they're playing the wrong mode or whatever because they would say "oh you're just a drummer what do you know?"
Click to expand...
For me it was never my timing it was my counting (which just so happens it was NOT wrong). The other 3 members of the band argued that I was counting too many measures and that the change should come before, I told them no because I have this... I guess you can call it natural ability to feel where the tempo change is without needing to count it in most cases. We played the original tracks and I was not wrong, after this happened a few times, they stop questioning my counts. They would also question anything that they were ignorant of (as if I had just made it up), we had to Google it and when they got a "second opinion" from the web confirming what I had just told them, then they would stop arguing, like I would just make stuff up for no reason. I don't need to impress anyone, could care less if others like me or not, I used to but I have grown out of that, and that is called mental freedom in my book.
Now my only competition is myself. I try to outdo my past self all the time.
In the wise words of Karate Kid's Pat Morita (RIP) "There is always going to be someone better than you" so I apply that to my entire life and try my best without worrying about others. Maybe something your can try too?
 
toddbishop said:
Ask them what tempo they want and play it at that tempo. Have them count it off.

I predict it will still be wrong to them, and they’ll still accuse me you of rushing when they get to the part they can’t play. Good luck.
Click to expand...

This right here. And this is why I say everyone needs a click, all the time.
 
I used to play with a Diva who always whined before a song 'Not too FAST' (usually to the guitar player who tended to run ahead of the beat... of if he counted it in.. was pushing the tempo. In other cases she'd yell out 'not too slow!' or ' Not draggy!'
You are right - it puts everyone on edge - like a golfer about to putt - 'Don't blow it!'
Really annoying.
Fortunately I put an end to that after she joined the band.. I pointed out that I have all the songs and setlists on my phone using Tempo Advance. If she has a dispute with the agreed upon tempo then we can discuss - but otherwise her comments are not helpful, especially when she is wrong.
A few notes:
- draggy can sometimes mean the band is playing sluggishly.. not precisely enough, sliding the notes around.. even if the meter is right on. To counteract that.. I remind everyone to basically look and play sharp, be precise - and then hammer out the groove so everyone locks in with the pocket.
- even when the lead guitarist leads in a song with a riff - I'm always pre-empting them by giving them the meter by slapping my stick on my leg or a few quiet stick clicks just to make sure
- '5 bpms off' is a lot in my book. I always play right on the meter that we all agreed on. But even if you take the meter from the phone.. you can slip transitioning from glancing at the tempo and actual playing in time when the band jumps in if you don't have a reference point - so I ALWAYS quickly glance at the tempo AND think of the melody or hook line that goes with it - so you can jump into the groove fully prepared and in perfect time.
 
I couldn't play with a click in my ear live.. apart from driving me nuts or ruining my hearing.. I rely on just the memory jog from my phone.. and lock in.. the rest of the band generally locks in to me.. and I rarely slip. It's like getting on a train Lol.. there's no stopping or slowdowns.
Practice with a meteronome that lets you drop out bars - and when the meter comes back in you should too - in the right place. Best meter exercise ever..
 
Space and time-one of these days ,boys. When I played with an orchestra each person was responsible for time keeping-anyone off got chastised. But in bands I do note there is sometimes a tendency to blame the drummer if too fast or dragging. Sometimes it's warranted, others is some naive fool trying to mitigate their disaster and it just enables it, the better part of valor is to play as band requires-which there are some songs singers have a difficult time singing as recorded so we all agree to slow tempo for singers sake at times. At churches the tempo , even for the same song ,can vary widely depending on singers and rest of band. We do have one female singer at the church I play now who drags songs-we all have to drag with her-which drives other singers and everyone else crazy LOL.
 
If I'm playing covers, I will use LiveBPM to detect the exact tempo of the recording and then include it in the setlist. I have LiveBPM running during the set; I start the song off at tempo and then keep it there. If the song feels better for us at a slightly different tempo to the recording (faster or slower) then we can adjust from there. This solves most of the tempo arguments without having to play to a click live.

But to echo Grippa, timekeeping is everyone's responsibility and everyone needs to know how to play their parts at the correct tempo.
 
Everyone feels time and tempo slightly differently. Everyone also feels that they're feeling it correctly, and someone else is wrong.

That's why playing to a click can be valuable. At that point everyone has to objectively be in tempo and it takes all of the feelings out of it.

If you can't play to a click you also most likely can't play at that exact tempo either. Normally close enough and steady can be good enough for most people, but in cases where there is a...difference of opinion, you have to be ready to back it up with locking in with a click.
 
I always use a visual metronome app to count off songs and monitor our tempo during a song. I also use charts for big band or notes for church, so I have a record of our normal tempos for all songs.

If someone complains about a tempo, I slow it down or speed it up as requested and then go back to the correct tempo the next time we get together. Makes the tempo cops happy, and everyone else knows what's going on.
 
Stickman said:
I couldn't play with a click in my ear live.. apart from driving me nuts or ruining my hearing.. I rely on just the memory jog from my phone.. and lock in.. the rest of the band generally locks in to me.. and I rarely slip. It's like getting on a train Lol.. there's no stopping or slowdowns.
Practice with a meteronome that lets you drop out bars - and when the meter comes back in you should too - in the right place. Best meter exercise ever..
Click to expand...

Then get a Soundbrenner pulse
 
No offence, and I am incredibly pedantic, but you can't be bang on if you're 5 bpm out. :ROFLMAO:

But were you too fast or too slow? The musician, and I'm guessing guitarist, maybe wasn't comfortable with your tempo - could be his fingers don't move that fast!

All I can suggest is playing along with the reference track until it's second nature. If it's a cover, I'm interested in what song it was.
 
research the bpm of your catalog and keep it documented and readily available.

Always record your practices and performances.

Reference the recording and BPM Document...see if they are right or wrong. it is wise to note the place in the recording and do this at a break or just after the session...but BE SURE to review this with EVERYONE once it is determined...that way you squash power games.

You can forestall the issue by explaining that you record every playing session for just this purpose...then you get fewer false claims.

IMHO you want to invite these observations IF THEY ARE HONEST and not just personality/power games.(so review your recordings and note where work might be needed)
 
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