A financial band situation, just wondering what others think about this…

In the situation I'm in the band owns none of the sound system. The owner of it runs sound for a variety of bands in the area. It's hauled in a sizeable truck similar to what furniture stores use. He has help setting up the system and I do know one thing...compared to what band members make (and I'm not complaining) it makes me think I should have been a soundman owning my own gear. He DOES have alot of work to do though. Without what he provides our band is done.
 
My opinion is I think it's too late to do anything in this band. You could try. It's been the status quo for some time I'm guessing. Going forward in the future with different people is where this discussion will come into play.
 
Sounds a bit crazy. A 20K PA is a lot to be lugging around, unless you are full time touring band and have a recording deal or something.. but even then the venues would usually supply sound and tech. In the end the owner can sell the equipment and recoup most of their costs.. and split it with whoever paid into it... based on what number of gigs played with the band etc? Do you have a signed contract guaranteeing you the proceeds of the resale as part owner? Most bands have their own PAs.. but usually bought as a lump sum and one or two band members own it.. and if the band dissolves they sort out the ownership and resale proceeds etc.

I'd have the band discuss the accounting with the leader and arrive at something that's fair. Balance that with other factors.. is he getting you high paying gigs that cover the costs of moving the equipment and providing good sound tech services? Even then, $250 is pretty steep for each band member even for a well paid gig. How many band members do you have?
Generally for hiring a decent PA/Audio service for a gig (around here ) it's about $600-800. So we hire a PA/tech service for well paid events like weddings, private events etc. As a 6 piece band we each pay about $100-125 each from the total payout.. for smaller gigs we bring our own PA and do our own sound and no cost to the band members as the 3 gear owners move and set it up.. they are wireless so they can walk around the venue for sound check etc.

Its all about transparency.. if they are above board then fine.. but watch out for red flags.
I played for one band where we discovered the band leader, (singer of course!) unbeknownst to the band members, was cutting himself into the contracts and paying himself 5 times what we were getting. We only discovered this after the band split after a few years.. mainly because the singer was such an A word!
 
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moxman said:
Its all about transparency.. if they are above board then fine.. but watch out for red flags.
I played for one band where we discovered the band leader, (singer of course!) unbeknownst to the band members, was cutting himself into the contracts and paying himself 5 times what we were getting. We only discovered this after the band split after a few years.. mainly because the singer was such an A word!
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One band I was in, I always made about the same each gig; however, the lead singer/band leader kept ALL of the tip money on top of his cut...whatever that was. I'm pretty sure he ALWAYS got paid more than we did. With that said, it was his name on the side of the trailer, he pulled the trailer, and he always had the PA set up by the time I got there with the drums. It was plug-n-play for everyone. I've often wondered how much more he paid himself, but all in all, who cares? I was making a little bit of money as well, and I have a great day job that allows me to play music, so I'm good to go. That dude was and is sketchy anyways.
 
I'd go with the one where he loads and unloads it to keep taking the $250 extra if it's USD or a similarly valued currency. If shows pay you $1500, a similar amount or more then I'd probably reconsider helping.

One of the best bar bands around here gets a sound guy for $100 per show. Band I'm in owns an ancient PA and we have to overwork every show because of it. One helper is spastic when setting up and puts stuff in my way making it seem like a day job or a competition. I don't have a day job for a reason.
But someone else owns it, trailers it and maintains the trailer plus he books all shows.
We have a good time playing and teardown isn't unpleasant. Set up is.

Playing is supposed to be fun.
And some things are worth paying for.
 
It’s not impossible, but it does depend a lot on how popular the band is, and in what circuits. Like conventions, weddings, tribute acts and backing up major acts that don’t carry a band can pay $250 and over on the regular per person, but you do have to live in an area where they’re realistic scenes and not one offs.
 
These kinds of questions are what got Steve Smith fired from Journey.

blabbermouth.net

JOURNEY Settles With STEVE SMITH And ROSS VALORY Over Alleged 'Corporate Coup D'État'

JOURNEY's Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain have resolved their legal dispute with the band's former members, drummer Steve Smith and bassist Ross Valory. On March 3, 2020, Schon and Cain filed a lawsuit against Valory and Smith, who had been members of JOURNEY on and off since the band formed in...
blabbermouth.net blabbermouth.net
 
It really doesn't seem unfair - it seems pretty straight forward. He recouped his investment and now he's renting it to the band.

If you can find a $20k PA for less than $250 a show - suggest that instead, but I doubt it.
 
I've always expected the band member who owns the PA and usually the one that provides a place for rehearsal should get a little more money than the other members who are only responsible for their own Riggs. That would be like rent. I don't know about 250 per gig that seems a little high but if the rest of the band is making 500 then an extra 250 sounds appropriate. One band I'm in the band leader own the PA and usually doesn't get paid more. When we get really good pay or the traveling is very far then he takes more pay. He even cuts back on his pay sometimes so he can pay us more. I've told him he should take a bigger cut . The other band rents a PA usually and that is paid for off the top then we split the rest.
 
Start charging for your dums per gig! enough is enough on the 250 per gig payoff. that crap isnt right to begin with in my opinion, but to carry it on is just selfish.
I had a friend in highschool who turned 16 before I did. he would always call and say hey lets go to the movies or somewhere, ill pick you up but you have to pay for gas. after a while i was like enough dude, my 180 miles worth of gas i pay for each time doesnt add up to the 10 miles we drive. he stopped asking...
 
Jasta 11 said:
Start charging for your dums per gig! enough is enough on the 250 per gig payoff. that crap isnt right to begin with in my opinion, but to carry it on is just selfish.
I had a friend in highschool who turned 16 before I did. he would always call and say hey lets go to the movies or somewhere, ill pick you up but you have to pay for gas. after a while i was like enough dude, my 180 miles worth of gas i pay for each time doesnt add up to the 10 miles we drive. he stopped asking...
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I really don't see how this "is not right to begin with". This band leader took $20k of his hard earned money and invested in PA to serve the band's needs - insuring that it would always be ready for them to rent as needed - something that can't be said for likely any other PA that might want to rent ("Sorry, our PA's are already rented for those dates")

So again he invested a bunch of his money - so the band would always have a PA available. He could've left his money in the bank - or in his kids' college fund - he could've made money with that money (his money) any number of ways. But he didn't - he started a side-rental business - for his band's benefit.

And yet, somehow he's "selfish" for not using his money for an interest free loan? He's selfish for not gifting the earning power of his money to his band??? The only way this investment is an investment (and not just a charity) are the rentals that come after the PA is paid off. To change the arrangement now, would just make him the sucker that ponied an interest free loan of $20K to band of freeloaders that ponied up nothing at all.

All of this is why I have always avoided "group owned" bands like a plague. Give me a "leader owned" band - that owns the gig, the music, the ancillary gear - and calls and offers a decent wage to play.

I get original bands are more difficult in this regard - though not necessarily.
 
JimmyM said:
It’s not impossible, but it does depend a lot on how popular the band is, and in what circuits. Like conventions, weddings, tribute acts and backing up major acts that don’t carry a band can pay $250 and over on the regular per person, but you do have to live in an area where they’re realistic scenes and not one offs.
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This is my bread and butter kinda work. With our usual lineup we bought a PA between us when we first started out and have upgraded when needed. Cuts out squabbling like the topic of this thread.

Our singer and guitarist are teachers, so any old gear which is in perfectly good working order gets recycled into the education system instead of clogging up someone's house or a unit

For 99% of the gigs we do you only need a couple of powered tops, desk and a sub. These are well paid gigs too, if you're playing anywhere bigger they'll provide the PA and sound engineer but these gigs are pretty rare on the functions scene which is why I'm really miffed with the situation in the OP.
 
Get some other quotes for hiring a similar PA. Hopefully cheaper than your current fee. Then suggest he lowers his hire fee, and if he won’t then threaten to hire the cheaper system instead.
 
I keep rereading this and there are multiple ways to interpret it. We really need to know who owns the thing before it can be determined what to do with the money.

On one hand it sounds like he fronted the $$$ and the band paid it back, in which case the payment should be over.

On the other hand it sounds like he bought it and is renting it out to his own band, which sounds manipulative to me.

I'm curious if this band leader provides a place to practice and collects rent for that as well.
 
Ask yourself..

"What would Charles Mingus do?"


In all honesty though, without knowing every detail, this could go a bunch of different ways. Could be totally reasonable and it could not be.

My idea for my own band doing my stuff has always been to take full responsibility and just give the musicians an agreed upon fee. I may get lucky, but I may also loose a bunch of money. I'd consider that to be a pretty good deal as there is no risk for them. If they're friends and help out in the beginning by charging less than normal, obviously it will rain a bit on them to reward that if things go well.

In a regular band situation it's been different. Every expense is shared and then we split, but with a bit extra for the one doing the booking, which is not always the same person. Just makes sense that someone in the band who's already has a foot at a certain venue can takes care of that, at least if it's the first for a the new band playing there.
 
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I'm not changing my answer, but decades ago a married couple offered a similar spot to me. He wanted to take 125 per 2 day show for his PA. Back then it was Friday and Sat at one bar venue for a $500-ish gig for the band. I didn't even consider taking that spot.

If the gigs were $800-1000 for the band per weekend, I probably would've done it.
 
I'm loving the " whoever does the work gets a bigger cut " suggestions.....I should be on 90% !! :unsure: :ROFLMAO:

My take on the op.... I don't see the issue, this guy invested in a pa, and rents it out for $250 a night - as others have said, if you can rent one of the same quality cheaper then either negotiate the current rate or rent the other one. I would think the likely falling out would negate any monetary savings though.......
 
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