bobdadruma
Platinum Member
Not at my age, no way, no how
Stage volume
- Thread starter Larry
- Start date
ShadoWReX
Member
Hey UL, if it was me I'de talk to them and explain it just as you did to us. If they have an issue with your comments -which are to help the band... then maybe it's best to move on!
Personally I feel that if one is in a situation that is unpleasant -it needs to change. Life is too short and hearing loss irreversible.
Good luck my friend -you deserve better!!!
-jc aka bj
Personally I feel that if one is in a situation that is unpleasant -it needs to change. Life is too short and hearing loss irreversible.
Good luck my friend -you deserve better!!!
-jc aka bj
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
Methinks that Jay and Ben have given the good advice (with help from captain Hindsight?) that the rest of us should have given from the get go. Ouch. Note to self: "Be better friend by giving more mature advice or just STFU and let someone else give it.
Having said that, I'm still confident that the volume issue would not be resolved even with the most delightful, polite and professional request ever made. Obviously if Top Cat had any sort of issue it would have been looked at long ago. Neil and the bass guy obviously like things cranked up.
lol - yep, I hung my rack up in the cue years ago.
Having said that, I'm still confident that the volume issue would not be resolved even with the most delightful, polite and professional request ever made. Obviously if Top Cat had any sort of issue it would have been looked at long ago. Neil and the bass guy obviously like things cranked up.
Not at my age, no way, no how
lol - yep, I hung my rack up in the cue years ago.
lsits
Gold Member
It's quite possible that if the other personnel in the band have been playing since the 70's their hearing has been destroyed and they need to turn up the volume in order to compensate. I've played with a guitarist whose upper register is gone so he cranks up the treble in order to get the sound he wants to hear. The trouble is what sounds good to him sounds like crap to the rest of us. Like nails on a chalk board. He also plays stupid loud and when he's asked to turn down his Marshall half-stack, he either pretends to turn down or just ignores the request.
I have been wearing ear plugs every time I play for the last ten years or so. My hearing has been damaged already and I don't want it to get any worse. In the two bands I play in I'm the only one who uses hearing protection. I think there's a "Rock and Roll" attitude that you're a wuss if you wear hearing protection.
I have been wearing ear plugs every time I play for the last ten years or so. My hearing has been damaged already and I don't want it to get any worse. In the two bands I play in I'm the only one who uses hearing protection. I think there's a "Rock and Roll" attitude that you're a wuss if you wear hearing protection.
hyruleherojoe
Senior Member
Man oh man. Maybe it's my inexperience with being in a semi-pro to a professional band, but I would NEVER take that kind of exchange. For my I have to mesh well with the musicians and enjoy the music. I find it much more rewarding genuinely liking the group and making awesome music. Maybe it's because I'm not depending on music to feed my stomach, but that's just how I feel. I'm glad you are able to shake this off very easily Larry. Very professional. That bandleader is an odious man.
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Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
This is exactly the experience I had with a band where I had volume concerns like yours. The bands reaction (among ourselves of course) was to sneer at the peasants who apparently didn't appreciate decent music. I'd already told them in the break that the feedback I was getting was that it was far too loud. I commented that at a function like this (it was a wedding) people meet up who sometimes haven't met for years, they like to chat - to which the bass player responded "If you want to chat, why book a live band?". Unbelievable.
I'm sure this was the reason. I believe this is more common than we realise.
I've played in/with 3 bands over the last few years, and at regular jam sessions, and I've done a few auditions on top of all that. The vast majority being guys (and gals) in their 50s and 60s. NEVER have I seen ANYONE using ear plugs except myself.
Davo-London
Gold Member
My take is the response was not addressing the real issue - just a reaction to you criticising the band. Neil has taken the comments very personally because he should have realised the issue and sorted it. The fact that he didn't makes him an unsuitable band leader and puts into question his credibility as a band leader.
That's the issue. I'm amazed from what I've seen that you are still in this band. It sounds a country-mile away from the type of band you would want to be playing with.
Davo
That's the issue. I'm amazed from what I've seen that you are still in this band. It sounds a country-mile away from the type of band you would want to be playing with.
Davo
Stroman
Diamond Member
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
Neil is not the Nazi everyone thinks he is. It's really not as bad as it seems. No he's not perfect, who is? Every band has some friction. It's how the friction is handled. I like this band. We laugh a lot, we are always learning new material. We have the best rehearsal space ever and there's always good food and drink supplied. We get some bigger gigs like festivals and stuff, and I am proud to be a part of this band.
But the stage volume is too much. Is that enough reason to leave? Not even close. I just want to improve the areas that need it. If I am the only one who realizes/cares, then it's my (self appointed) job to hopefully shame them into realizing/caring too.
Now if I find out that they realize they are too loud and tough crap Larry deal with it...I still wouldn't quit. It's not enough of a dealbreaker.
I just need to lead the horse to water. I feel it's my duty to the audience. The rest is up to Neil and the guys.
Mad About Drums
Pollyanna's Agent
See... this is the problem with things in writing only... it can be read so many ways, with so many interpretations and intonations, the sky's the limit... that's why it's better to talk first in this kind of problems, you see these guys regularly, it's not like you live thousands of mile away... even if you did, a phone call could have been better
THis is the band you recently started playing with, right? I don't know, it sounds as though you like you like the situation more than the music. Plus that ridiculous rehearsal space you were touting.
mmulcahy1
Platinum Member
Larry, I was just wondering, do you think Neil would be pissed (mad, upset... not drunk) if he knew you were putting this "band issue" on a public forum? I mean talk about your band leader Neil not having any control!
Don't get me wrong, here. This whole episode has been full of all sorts of learning experiences for me that I will hopefully be able to use ...or not use... in the future.
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
Oh yeah Neil would be pissed. I deleted the posts with his emails after reading Bens take on it. I can't delete anyone who quoted his response. I would like it if whoever quoted his stuff would delete it.
TBH, this is one of the greatest assets here, all the advice and different POV's. Plus I feel it is helpful for members here to be privy to real life problems and exchanges. It's worth it to me if Neil finds out, which he probably won't. But if he does, I'll deal with it.
I haven't heard a word since. Truthfully, I've said my piece. I have nothing else to add. I'm sure he is preparing some form of response. So I will let him say his piece and deal with that in person as I see fit. At least now he knows that I get pissed when we blow everyone out with volume. Hopefully that attitude will catch on. If not, I tried. I am sure he will want to discuss this further in private. I have no regrets about making an issue when it comes to something that is detrimental, except perhaps doing it by email. Apparently, when it comes to this particular issue, I have higher standards. So there's no way I'm going to let anyone make me feel bad about that. In my mind, the rest of the guys need to step up a lot in that department. It's not my problem, it's theirs. I can and do play whisper quiet when it's called for.
bigiainw
Gold Member
Email is as much of a danger as it is a boon. The problem with email is it's so easy to respond that e don't always think it through fully (not necessarily in this case, just sayin') the other issue is that it relies on the perception of the receiver to understand what was intended. That doesn't always go well and perceptions are based on individual interpretations of context, tone and content and don't have body language, tone and inference to mitigate the power of the words used.
I know from some bitter personal experience that misinterpretation is much easier that transmitting what was intended. Face to face is the only way in my opinion.
I know from some bitter personal experience that misinterpretation is much easier that transmitting what was intended. Face to face is the only way in my opinion.
Aeolian
Platinum Member
As a long time guitar player, this particular bit of "conventional wisdom" drives me nuts. Pointed right at your head from 3-4' away, a guitar amp sounds nothing like it does in the room or even as close as the dance floor. Either the guitarist will be suffering though a nasty sound that they hate and drastically affects their playing, or they will roll off things to the point where you have mud instead of an individual voice in the mix. The only solution for which is more level. On a small stage where you have to stand close to your rig, having it hip high and pointed straight out is the closest for the guitarist to the sound that spreads into the room. Elevated stages where this puts the speaker at ear level for the dancers right in front need a bit of help from things like beam blockers or plexi shield that go half way up the speaker. This is a really great solution as it funnels sound up to the person standing right there but still allows a fairly natural sound out into the room.
This is unfortunately all too often true of amateur musicians. Especially those who view "their sound" in an isolated context instead of how it sounds to the audience while the whole band is playing.
The corollary to this is that if you aren't the lead or featured voice, you should not be able to hear yourself clearly. Drums is kind of an exception as you are sitting right on top of the sound generating bits. Solos should be similar to drumming, you can hear yourself clearly but you can still hear everyone else. It's very hard for amateurs to grasp the concept of playing for the mix. Both in level and timbre. Gig recordings can help but they have to be open to it, or exposed to someone they they respect doing it right. It is a bit uncomfortable at first to play without hearing yourself clearly. There's a sort of braille aspect to it. But it is not the soundman's responsibility to turn you down when you aren't soloing. It is each musician's responsibility to manage their level in the mix, and follow the dynamics of the arrangement.
One concept to consider is that of a harmony singing group like a choir or barbershop group. You control your volume to blend with the others. You're trying to hear the blend of the harmony, not your own voice. Same goes for comping in a band.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
I like that!
Just the other week our bassist and I were talking about how it feels like we're all singing together, just that we're using instruments instead of vocal cords. Took a fair while for that penny to drop ...
New Tricks
Platinum Member
One thing I have learned is, just because someone is a talented musician doesn't mean they have good ears. I have seen this situation a thousand times. Someone with a good ear has to be in charge of the sound.
To help with this problem, both bands I play with run everything thru the PA and the monitor mix is the FOH mix. Amplifiers are evil.
To help with this problem, both bands I play with run everything thru the PA and the monitor mix is the FOH mix. Amplifiers are evil.
drumdevil9
Platinum Member
Luckily I have never run into this problem with any band I have played with. Everyone was always very conscientious and flexible (even meticulous) about their stage volume, even in situations where no micing was involved. Reading all the stories here I guess I've been really lucky. Then again I most often wore ear plugs so maybe sometimes they would have been too loud for some others' taste but I never had a problem. Other problems, sure but that's another story.
Glad you decided to delete the guy's private emails. I would be pissed for sure.
Glad you decided to delete the guy's private emails. I would be pissed for sure.