Silent stage age: do your drums matter anymore?

I grew up in a time where a lot of bands had electronic kits that they played live, while the kit didn't look good on stage, I was probably the only one who cared, because everyone else (non drummers) were just having a blast with the bands. To them the only thing that mattered was that the band sounded good and they put a good performance. I personally have played a few gigs with e-kits and from the audience perspective we sounded great.
 
Chris Whitten said:
The sound on stage is only ever purely for the musicians. Why would you not need any sound on stage in larger venues?
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Because the PA is able to do all of the heavy lifting in the job of getting the sound out to the crowd.

My point really didn't have anything to do with large venues, though. I thought I made my point about small venues pretty well...
 
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Chris Whitten said:
The sound on stage is separate to the sound the audience hears. The sound onstage is to inform the players and inspire them. The effect is no different from a small club to an enormous arena.
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When I'm at the small clubs I see shows at, the sound on the stage is often fully half of the total sound in the house. It's different from an arena show, I promise.

Heck I've seen punk shows where the guitar sound is entirely the volume coming off the stage. I've run the sound at shows like that!
 
dwsabianguy said:
When I'm at the small clubs I see shows at, the sound on the stage is often fully half of the total sound in the house. It's different from an arena show, I promise.
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Yes, that's right. So silent stages in clubs would actually be more relevant than bigger venues.
Once you get to theatre and up, it's easier to control the stage volume from acoustic drums and amps and still have a decent sound in the PA.
 
dwsabianguy said:
When I'm at the small clubs I see shows at, the sound on the stage is often fully half of the total sound in the house. It's different from an arena show, I promise.

Heck I've seen punk shows where the guitar sound is entirely the volume coming off the stage. I've run the sound at shows like that!
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Some years ago I built the sound system for the Ozzfest tour second stage. 260,000 watts of Crest power amps (yes, all those zeros) and 60 speaker cabs. Because it was so loud FOH was out 120’ instead of the more typical 100’. In one of the bands the guitarist had three Marshall stacks. He was so loud that we didn’t put him in the mix and in fact he was too loud for the mix (but there was nothing we could do about it).

To the question at hand … it matters a LOT less than in the past.
 
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GetAgrippa said:
Next thing ya know you'll put on a helmet (like Magneto) that forma a neural link with your brain and you play the drums in a virtual space- time matrix you record to mix music with other musicians within the same virtual matrix. All technology no real instruments. Heck you won't even need real people-virtual people making virtual music for a virtual audience. A Brave New World to go where no human kind has gone before-and for good reason because we won't be there it's all virtual people living in a virtual new world. LOL. Why have just reality when you can have virtual reality? My virtual Art has already been implanted into a virtual world and now it's autonomous living without me the real Art. Or am I?
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I believe we have discovered the new most GetAgrippa post ever ❤️😂
 
Chris Whitten said:
BTW, if I go to a club show I don't expect to hear CD quality audio through the sound system, I expect the show to have energy and be intimate.
From friends who have seen all IEM, V-Drum shows in smaller venues they all said it felt sterile, less energy from the stage.
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This entirely!

I'm finding small venues are going down the "we want bands, but not the noise" road. It sounds like a singer with pre-recorded backing tracks and these venues all have terrible in house systems which have limiters built in. If the money is good you grit your teeth and get through it.

The scary bit is the cost to do it. You spend all that time and money finding which gear suits you only to be told you have to spend a lot more on v-drums and amp sims etc which are obsolete in a few years time.
 
If you're an up and coming band you aren't all going to have IEM's. Some bands last a few months before breaking up.
The silent stage is arguably most relevant for smaller venues, but as I said, I was going to see bands in small clubs in the 70's and 80's and part of the excitement was the energy and raw sound off the stage.
If one musician dominates, that's a problem with the musician and needs to be addressed.
 
"Self-mixing" is the first basic hurdle in the life stage of most bands coming up.......especially young bands on a budget. Most young bands don't have a full PA system so it is all about balancing the bands sound and volume through volume control of each amp etc. and can only be as loud as acoustic drums will allow and be heard (which is actually quite loud as well all know).

Like most college bands "back in the day" my band played 90% of our gigs with the singer being the only one going through the PA in small venues. It wasn't until we started playing larger clubs opening for "real bands" swinging through the area that someone actually mic'd my drums etc. IEM wasn't really "a thing" back in the mid 90s that I recall.......at least not at the local level.
 
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At the end of the day it makes sense to me especially for aging arena rock bands. Acoustic drums are one of the most finicky parts of an entire band to try to dial in when you are playing different venues every few nights. This approach allows you to simply set up, plug in, and sound the same regardless of environment.

I'm not one who feels like electric drums are cheating or faking or anything like that, you still have a talented professional physically playing them and applying technique to the use of them. If you walk into a room blindfolded and hear someone playing drums, and I mean absolutely killing it and blowing you away with their ability, only to remove the blindfold and see they are playing an ekit... You are not suddenly going to say "ohh nevermind, that guy sucks."

So much of what we see and hear while attending these big name shows are artificial to some extent especially in regards to visual appeal. Bands are using backing music tracks, backing vocal tracks, backing percussion tracks... It goes on and on. In the modern metal scene it's common to have the drummer not even play their bass drum and have that all be a backing track.

Is the earlier example with Roland pads hidden inside DW shells any different than our own @Living Dead Drummer using a dummy second bass drum for looks? No, and that dude is a beast on the kit so who cares.

I think @bermuda use of the plexiglass shield is the best middle ground between controlling the environment but still using real acoustic drums. If anyone can be considered an authority on this topic I think it's him because he has been playing venues of all sizes trying to replicate the same sounds for what.... 40 years now? If he suddenly posted a thread saying "that's it guys, I'm switching exclusively to ekits for all of Al's gigs moving forward" I would say "makes sense to me".

I've thought about switching to gigging an ekit actually and the only reason I haven't bothered is that, in my gig environments, I typically would have to bring basically my own entire sound system. If I was constantly playing venues with nice sound systems and competent sound guys I personally wouldn't bother carting out acoustic drums.
 
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roncadillac said:
I think @bermuda use of the plexiglass shield is the best middle ground between controlling the environment but still using real acoustic drums. If anyone can be considered an authority on this topic I think it's him because he has been playing venues of all sizes trying to replicate the same sounds for what.... 40 years now? If he suddenly posted a thread saying "that's it guys, I'm switching exclusively to ekits for all of Al's gigs moving forward" I would say "makes sense to me".
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Thanks, and if anyone had a reason to use electronics/samples to replicate a variety of drum sounds, that would be me. But when playing live, it's okay to sound live. To an extent anyway, I wouldn't suggest that the other members don't use patches and effects that mirror the recordings, production is a big part of what most bands do. But it's okay for the drums to have a basic sound/tuning that works well with every song. Some effects are applied at FOH, but that's a given for just about everyone on stage.

There are inherent problems with being exclusively electronic on stage as evidenced by the issues that guitar & bass & keys have at almost every gig. At least with drums that are mic'd, if a cable fails, that drum will still be picked up by the other mics. It's not 'gone' and brings the song to a halt.
 
Great interview thanks for posting.

I totally get the need for all these techniques for achieving the ultimate sound for big venues and sound control.
In my case, I've spent years fine tuning my ultimate drum kit and hardware for awesome sound that reproduces perfectly in just about every situation - at least I thought!
I don't think I have the appetite to rejig it to accomodate e-pads or triggers - especially after selling my e-kit! I also have a basic fear of managing cables and plugs.. so I will close out my career in drumming as a troglodyte - totally devoted to acoustic drums..

But for large venues.. I have played several hockey arenas and the acoustics suck!.. so if the audio techs can provide a kit with all the triggers and electronics required for great pristine sound quality - and it's still fun to play and watch from the audience POV, then I would jump at the chance!
 
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I can comment on this as someone who has to play this scenario weekly. Let me just say, I hate it also. I play a gig (Jason Aldeans bar) weekly and they have no sound on stage whatsoever. All instruments are plugged direct box, and the house kit are roland drums. Nice ones, but still. Its still E-drums on a live gig. Love all the mistriggers and flat sounds no matter how you hit. (sarcasm). Seriously, people side stage, or anyone close to stage without ears, all you hear is click clack clack clack click clack clack. I mean its a paying gig, but its so stupid. I honestly feel like the audience doesnt appreciate the music as much either in this scenario.
 
I'm a purist for the most part. Not to the extent of Pete Seeger cutting electrical cords on Bob Dylan but I don't care what they come up with I'm gonna keep playing my Gretsch's. Though I'm not making a living at it so I can afford not to get on board.
 
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