DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE

Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

RudimentalDrummer said:
Dea

When you mentioned Accent...The way to execute it means what?...(I'm new into this). Does Accenting the Bass Drum means you stamp it harder (that's all) or there is a Techniques to do it like hand techniques. for Accenting & Ghosting?...

Thks
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Lang has the best technique for accents with the feet. He plays heel-down for the regular notes and heel-up for the accents. The motion employs constant release technique as described by Steve Smith in his DVD
 
Re: Double Bass Chops

Elemental Nausea said:
look on the dave lombardo homepage, there are some exercises which helped me build my speed...first you have to set up your two basses in a way that feels comfortable to you(as close together as possible usually), for practicing just look on the lombardo page, it`s really got me started as well. now after two years i am able to play most slayer and slipknot stuff for example with double bass, but there is also faster stuff in the extreme metal genre
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i looked for that website but it doesn't work. any ideas? does it still work for u
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Jeff Almeyda said:
Regarding heel-toe: I'm going out on a limb here but I HATE IT!!!

It usually sounds terrible on an acoustic kit. The two hits are very different and the continuous tap-dance motion is awkward while playing a song. Most of the guys using it employ triggers to smooth out the sound. Tim Waterson doesn't but he's a special case, he is the best in the world at it. (Much respect, Tim)

I have been working on legit doubles ala Lang et al. It has really helped me alot. I can only do 16ths at 160 BPM so far but that translates into 210 BPM plus for heel-up singles and 195 plus for heel down singles. (Yes heel down). I can hold these for at least 30 seconds. Not WFD champ material yet but nothing to sneeze at.

The ankle development you get from "old fashioned" doubles is second to none. Plus the sound is much more musical. Start out with 16ths at 80 BPM and go from there. Don't increase the speed until you're sounding smooth.

Yes, after a few hours you will be able to go faster with heel-toe but maybe the reward isn't as great in the long run. After all, we want to play music, not just fast notes right?

Just my opinion.
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ive been doing the heel toe thing for as long as ive been drumming. which is two years and my doubles are pretty consistant. but i only do it in my right foot. if your talking about consistency in both foot then my bad. but i use the heel toe all the time when i need fast doubles and im using my left foot on the high hat. but its really not hard to master. no offense to tim cause hes still a butt load better than me but it isnt hard to get the clean.i can almost the the "world famous tom-tom-bass-bass-tom-tom-bass-bass" fill thing with one foot. but ive have been working on the "traditional" doubles too.

i dont know what im ranting and raving about just learn both.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I am not sure what is meant by "heel toe doubles sound crappy" because when any technique is done properly, the final sound works just fine.

I'd think that the pros use a combination of techniques, and the only right way, is whatever works.

It's either sloppy technique, or cleanly done, no matter which way it's done.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

A few questions.

1. I can do RRRR LLLL RLRLRLRLRLRL etc etc .. at 120bpm. But when I try playing a normal 16th note double bass beat at 120bpm, my feet starts to get tired and I get really unstable. I've checked it with my teacher and he says my technique is correct. Anyway to fix this?

2. What do you guys this of the Encyclopedia Of Double Bass Drumming book?
 
Loss of Dble Bass ability

back in august I could do pretty decent double bass, no fancy rudiments or anything like that but I could keep a steady roll going, then I joined football and by the end of two-a-days I was so tired I never touched my drums except for shows, eventually It's addes up to a few months with out double bass practice, and I can't keep a steady double bass for more than 4 beats
The way I got my dble bass started was I just went for as long as I could (or until I hit half an hour) practicing keeping my right foot beat with my left hand nonstop
so It went like this
R R R R<-on high hat
RLRLRLRL<-bass
I'm also starting lessons this saturday so I'll get some help from my teacher
but do you guys have any tips as to how I should get my double bass back, or should I start like I did before.

thanks for your time
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

...and find the chunk of kryptonite that is sapping your power and encase it in a lead box.
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

Synthetik said:
...and find the chunk of kryptonite that is sapping your power and encase it in a lead box.
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Hahahaaaaaa that cracked me up. I go through the same thing w/ DB bass bro...ups and downs. Like anything...just keep doing it in a methodical disciplined way. I find it most helpful to think about life time goals and spreading the work over long periods. Not getting to caught up in the daily ups and downs ...hope that helps somehow.
peace
pm
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

One think I'd like to raise is that maybe you didn't have the double bass thing as down as you thought. Generally, if I learn something properly I don't forget it fast. When I say "properly" I mean to the degree that I can play it without a trace of having to "muscle through" technique and force things to happen, and without co-ordination problems that throw me off.

For example, I learned one particular latin groove maybe six or so years ago. I haven't really played it much if at all since about 2001/2002. I had a go at it again the other day. Now, back when I learned it there were two bass drum strokes I could never quite place right without a bit of tension, I didn't quite have the co-ordination and technique down. When I came back to it this year I discovered that excluding those two strokes I could still play the part perfectly, but those two strokes were now impossible to play - I couldn't muscle them in if my life depended on it.

I think it comes down to mastery. If you actually master the ability to do something then it goes into that nice "like riding a bike" category where you just don't seem to forget it, you just get a little bit rusty and need a week or two so you can clean the dust off. But if you're tense, unsure or whatever then you tend to lose ability at a much faster rate.

If your double bass stuff is tailing off that much in that short a space then maybe you're trying to force it? I can't say that with any kind of certainty, but maybe some lessons and a bit of practice of proper bass drum technique will help you both sort yourself out in the long run and also retain form a bit better if any other distractions come along in the short to medium term.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I know that there's an entire thread devoted to this, but I'm really having trouble with my double pedal. It's extremely hard to do. I've had my double pedal since Christmas 2004, and according to a lot of people, I've really improved, but I don't hear it. I always used to play heel down, although It gradually got to heel up, but I can't get any speed or coordination. I'm OK at playing slower beats, but as you gradually get up tempo, I start losing it. I play in a hardcore/metalcore style band, and this is really hampering our musical development. Does anyone have any tips on what I can do to get over this problem I have?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Synthetik said:
I am not sure what is meant by "heel toe doubles sound crappy" because when any technique is done properly, the final sound works just fine.

I'd think that the pros use a combination of techniques, and the only right way, is whatever works.

It's either sloppy technique, or cleanly done, no matter which way it's done.
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Due to the fact that the heel has the entire weight of the leg behind it and the toe doesn't, the first hit is always louder than the second. Also the beater rebounds freely off of the heel stroke and not off of the toe stroke.

Tim Waterson himself admits that the first note sounds different. That's why he sometimes uses a Vruk attachment. The Vruk puls the beater away from the head and makes the second stroke sound fuller.

That's why I say "It sounds like crap". Imagine a double stroke roll with the hands in which the first note of each double was heavier than the second. You would say it sounded terrible.
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

The very same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago. What I did was practice at a tempo that I could control and play straight sixteenth notes on perfectly (for me that was 120 bpm). I just practiced that for about a half an hour straight, then slowly increased the tempo. Soon, my double bass chops returned to me, and i have been burning since.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I just got my iron cobra double-bass pedal today!
I am in need of some SERIOUS practice!
I'm 15, and my brother is 16. My brother bought me the double-bass, because he has a job. (nice brother) I really do not have the greatest drum set in the world. It's an piece of crap TAMA that a friend gave me for free, because he had gotten a new drumset. I have 1 ride, a hihat, 2 toms, bassdrum, and iron cobra. I read some of the replies to this thread, and I DID get some tips I am going to try.
I hope I can get good at this!
Please, if you are going to reply to me...Remember, I am a COMPLETE beginner. I'm not even good with notes!
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

if you wanna be speedy on the right job, he he he. just kidding. i have one suggest for this all. no matter how beginner are you. just rilex and keep imagine that you having a bicycle in childhood. i mean on the road at yet. imagine you have roll on by your bicycle. just doing and do not thing about job or other. just pleasure. remember, drumming is a pleasure not a job. ok? get a smile an life is roll on. peace!
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

Same happened to me too. I was never that great at double bass, but i could go crazy physco metal for a good 5-10 seconds and keep it pretty even. I kinda lost that over the summer when i went to slp. away camp for a month. I have more control now after practicing more, but i havent gotten back up to speed yet. Maybe if i got a better double pedal it would help (usin a powershifter).
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

Do as Tim Waterson does--

Practice each foot separately for long periods of time (as in months) before putting them together. Use a metronome and start at a slow tempo.

He and many other great drummers also use a practice tool called the Hansenfutz practice pedal--

www.hansenfutz.com

The pedal allows you to work the muscles in a direct way instead of expending more energy balancing the body and controlling beater rebound (which I feel is the main culprit for leg fatigue). And don't freak out when your first buy it ... it comes set at the highest tension and feels very different from a real pedal. Just find a comfortable tension and angle for the pedal and be consistent.
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

Since I wrote my last post in this thread I've had reason to start practicing double pedal again. I haven't played it seriously (i.e: in front of people) in three years. Over that time I've lost about 5bpm off my comfortable speed. I'm going to stand with what I said below - if you actually learn to do something right (= with control and relaxation) you don't lose it that quickly. If you learn it wrong (with uncertainty and tension in your movements) then you lose your chops a lot faster.
 
Re: Loss of Dble Bass ability

finnhiggins said:
Since I wrote my last post in this thread I've had reason to start practicing double pedal again. I haven't played it seriously (i.e: in front of people) in three years. Over that time I've lost about 5bpm off my comfortable speed. I'm going to stand with what I said below - if you actually learn to do something right (= with control and relaxation) you don't lose it that quickly. If you learn it wrong (with uncertainty and tension in your movements) then you lose your chops a lot faster.
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I agree 100%

This concept is fundamental to achieving mastery at anything. The more accurately you program a movement into your nervous system, the longer it remains imprinted upon your mental circuitry. (aka muscle memory).
 
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