An attempt at a policy change here

[Snorbuckle]

Hi all,

I know this is a very odd thread to be typing my first post on this forum but due to the circumstances I believe it makes sense. I've been lurking this forum since I took up drumming just over a year ago, and during that lurking time it actually took me quite a while to notice that Andy was a professional drum builder and not just a greatly enthusiastic, knowledgeable and helpful guy. His responses in all kinds of threads are always helpful and contribute greatly to the topic at hand, never once distracting readers with hawking of his wares.

I saw the "problem" thread as soon as it was posted yesterday and didn't see any problem with it myself. In fact, I saw an opportunity to finally be able to contribute to this community as I am a web tester by profession (Please note that I am not a freelancer. This is not an advertisement!). I wanted to be able to offer constructive criticism to help a guy who is as passionate about drums as can be, in one area that he is clearly not so experienced in. If that topic was an attempt at marketing then it was very poor indeed, as I actually thought that he posted the links the wrong way round; the new site looks so much poorer than the old. Immediately after reading the topic I signed up for a forum account in order to provide some helpful feedback but by the time the account was validated and I had some free time, the thread was gone. Andy, if you still want constructive criticism then feel free to contact me, I would be happy to help.

I know that I have even less experience on this forum than shemp does, but from all I've seen, Andy not posting any Guru related discussion on the forum is a sad outcome for the large majority of this community that I still hope to be a part of, even if my entry was less than positive. If that thread had not been posted then I may have continued to lurk for much longer, and if that thread had not been removed then I surely would have had a much more positive first experience.

I feel that shemp's negativity was way unwarranted given the content and context of the thread, and that Andy's response is grasping the wrong end of the stick of public opinion.

 

[Duck Tape]

Shemp, you've been here 5 minutes and you were annoying enough. You make lots of really LONG and sometimes ignorant comments (e.g the ufip comment). I don't read your posts anymore, and I think you should know when to stop.

And that avatar! There's a picture of a dude who understands that an opinion is personal, and everyone has one. Why don't you?

 

[wsabol]

My previous post in this thread was sarcastic and trolling, but on a serious note.. Snorbuckle: Welcome to the forum and thank you for your perspective. You are seriously awesome. That is an excellent first post.

 

[Boom]

I'm bothered by the turn of events that has led to Andy (Keep it simple) not posting all of the wonderfully informing posts as usual.

I enjoyed all of the information disseminated from every one of his posts. I've learned more about drum making from Andy's posts than all other's combined.

Andy helps everyone so much on this forum. He is my favorite poster by far. For information or for being so honest and genuine.

Therefore, I'm upset that anything has occurred that would lead him to posting less. Yes, he'll keep posting other stuff, but I've, personally, just lost a great resource. Watching the progress of Guru drums was so rewarding and satisfying.

I can't believe that this went down like this.

 

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Welcome to the forum Snorbuckle. A great first post.

You probably won't see much of me for a while but I just thought I'd pass along my thoughts.

 

[DrumEatDrum]

But publicity of the worst kind IMO. This is not why I pursued a passion.

Baloney. You have 5 pages of people talking about good your company, and one single person not.

That's about as good of publicity as you could ever hope to have.

 

[jeffwj]

So to try and be short and sweet, I would like to see a new sub forum added that will allow anyone who is marketing a new product, to be able to talk completely freely about said product. I am also looking for support, if in fact the majority are in agreement about allowing members to ply their trade.

I am looking for reasons why this is not a good idea. I think it is a great idea, but perhaps I am missing something. I want to have the opportunity to know about a new product first...

I don't like the idea of a sub-forum for product advertisement. I originally thought the "Find a Drum Teacher" thread would be a great idea. But when you look at it, so many post are by (pretty much) non-members. Many register, post their ad, and never participate in the discussions.

I know of forums that don't even allow you to post your website link in your signature. Drummerworld has always had a great reputation for great moderators, so advertising without participation is not seen much here.

Common sense comes into play here too. Yes, some of us have products. I have a book on the market. But if you search my posts, you'll find that I only mention the book if it is pertinent to the discussion. Yes, I created posts when it first came out or when it was nominated for a certain award, but that's also part of keeping my Drummerworld friends in the loop.

Jeff

 

[The Old Hyde]

I don't like the idea of a sub-forum for product advertisement. I originally thought the "Find a Drum Teacher" thread would be a great idea. But when you look at it, so many post are by (pretty much) non-members. Many register, post their ad, and never participate in the discussions.

I know of forums that don't even allow you to post your website link in your signature. Drummerworld has always had a great reputation for great moderators, so advertising without participation is not seen much here.

Common sense comes into play here too. Yes, some of us have products. I have a book on the market. But if you search my posts, you'll find that I only mention the book if it is pertinent to the discussion. Yes, I created posts when it first came out or when it was nominated for a certain award, but that's also part of keeping my Drummerworld friends in the loop.

Jeff

So if jeff gets a new student in his area because of a post here, should we call the forum cop?

 

[SgtThump]

Shemp, you've been here 5 minutes and you were annoying enough. You make lots of really LONG and sometimes ignorant comments (e.g the ufip comment). I don't read your posts anymore, and I think you should know when to stop.

And that avatar! There's a picture of a dude who understands that an opinion is personal, and everyone has one. Why don't you?

You pretty much said what I've been thinking for at least a couple of weeks.

 

[iamjohn]

I think the moderators should have shown some guts and told Shemp to buzz off.

 

[Larry]

But if you search my posts, you'll find that I only mention the book if it is pertinent to the discussion.

Jeff

I'm assuming you want to preserve that privilege. Wouldn't it be a shame if that wasn't allowed? I don't want that. I want you to be able to mention your book, freely.

The only reason I wanted a sub forum was basically to cater to the shemps. So in a way, I am being respectful to someone who doesn't deserve it. Still, he has a right to be here, much to my chagrin. It just seems that his wants take precedence over what the clear majority wants.

 

[MrPockets]

I see two other threads on the front page that could be considered advertisements.

One even has the OP bumping it.

I am beginning the think this is actually a witch hunt against one person since "the rule" has only been applied to one offender and not all of them.

 

[Larry]

I see two other threads on the front page that could be considered advertisements.

One even has the OP bumping it.

I am beginning the think this is actually a witch hunt against one person since "the rule" has only been applied to one offender and not all of them.

The rule has not been officially applied by the mods here. A voluntary withdrawal of all things Guru was done by a very principled individual (Andy), as a result of being called out for the laughable charge of marketing trickery. To even insinuate that Andy engages in trickery is an abomination.... that I wish the mods would act on.

 

[DrumEatDrum]

I see two other threads on the front page that could be considered advertisements.

One even has the OP bumping it.

I am beginning the think this is actually a witch hunt against one person since "the rule" has only been applied to one offender and not all of them.

Indeed it was.

And sadly, it worked.

 

[Stroman]

Still, he has a right to be here, much to my chagrin. It just seems that his wants take precedence over what the clear majority wants.

This is something I wonder about. Does anyone have a RIGHT to be here? This forum is privately owned.

It behooves the owner to welcome guests unless they cause trouble, but we are guests. No one really has rights here, I don't think. We have privileges.

Just a thought.

 

[Andy]

Andy, if you still want constructive criticism then feel free to contact me, I would be happy to help.

Thank you so much for taking the time & effort to chime in. The answer is yes, I need all the help I can get. I put up the original thread (oh boy, do I regret that to see if there was someone with your expertise who could give me some pointers. Additionally, I was after opinions from members from a visiting drummer perspective.

I can talk drums all day, but my knowledge of website building is near zero. We can't all be good at everything I know what I want to convey. I don't like sensationalism or "wow" kinda stuff. I like clean, simple, & to the point information. I need to find ways of getting real detail over to the viewer, whilst avoiding sweeping statements. Our customers want detail, not aspirational phrases. I want lots of visual content too, along with prominence of video material. Again, without pushing it in people's faces. I do have all new photography planned. Simple stuff, but much more coherent than the home made snapshots I have at the moment.

It took me weeks to assemble the site you now see. It's unfinished, but I had to do something as I was effectively held to ransom with an inherited site that was close to impossible to update/augment.

If you can spare some time, please send me your contact details by PM. I don't want to load up on you over this, but your help would be so much appreciated.

Thank you, Andy.

 

[Muckster]

I think the moderators should have shown some guts and told Shemp to buzz off.

Or at least thanked Shemp for the input and told him to go sit back down and finish his Cheerios.

 

[Larry]

This is something I wonder about. Does anyone have a RIGHT to be here? This forum is privately owned.

It behooves the owner to welcome guests unless they cause trouble, but we are guests. No one really has rights here, I don't think. We have privileges.

Just a thought.

Fair enough, you're right, privilege is the more accurate description. It is a privilege being here. It's not a right. Just like driving.

I have to say, even though we are guests, with privileges, I also feel we are "customers" if you will. Now I'm guessing Bernhard makes profits from DW, more power to him. All for that. At the same time, if it wasn't for the membership here, it would be worthless. So I feel that in the interest of keeping the "customers" happy, I feel they should be listened to, if enough members feel a certain way about a particular issue. If all of a sudden, everyone turned against this place and left, Bernhard would not benefit. So it's in his best interest to keep the majority happy. JMO. That's the way I'd feel if this were my website.

 

[Mark_S]

I wouldn't mind a peek too. I used to do web design for a living - or at least I used to implement them; graphic design never was my strong point so we had an artist do that. I just do business software these days but still do the odd site for friends here and there. I have an IPhone game out that is doing badly, but I won't mention what it is called as it is not drum related ;-)

Anyone have any ideas for drum related software? ;-)

 

[Andy]

Fair enough, you're right, privilege is the more accurate description. It is a privilege being here. It's not a right. Just like driving.

I have to say, even though we are guests, with privileges, I also feel we are "customers" if you will. Now I'm guessing Bernhard makes profits from DW, more power to him. All for that. At the same time, if it wasn't for the membership here, it would be worthless. So I feel that in the interest of keeping the "customers" happy, I feel they should be listened to, if enough members feel a certain way about a particular issue. If all of a sudden, everyone turned against this place and left, Bernhard would not benefit. So it's in his best interest to keep the majority happy. JMO. That's the way I'd feel if this were my website.

Not wishing to counter your view Larry, but as far as I'm aware, Bernhard makes nothing from this site, & certainly nothing from the forum. The whole site relies on some advertising revenue & donations from forum members + others. In any case, traffic through this forum is absolutely tiny compared to traffic through the main site. As forum members, we have zero leverage outside of Bernhard's indulgence in all things drumming.