A
audiotech
Guest
Just another small company taking advantage of the masses of Drummerworld.
Dennis
Dennis
Acoustic vs. Electronic
- Thread starter Sticks&Thrones
- Start date
MJD
Silver Member
I dont like E kits very much. I have yet to find one that i can just drum on. They dont have the response of a real drum and the triggers are no where near fast enough. When i start out doing single strokes at my normal speed they cant Keep up and i have to slow down to the point that every stroke triggers a sound. Double strokes are even worse. Never had that problem on an acoustic kit obviously.
Having said that i have been playing an electronic kit at work for the past month or so and it has been getting the job done for beginner lessons but am really excited that they are getting in an acoustic kit next week.
Having said that i have been playing an electronic kit at work for the past month or so and it has been getting the job done for beginner lessons but am really excited that they are getting in an acoustic kit next week.
SquadLeader
Gold Member
I have a fairly cheap EKit (Alesis DM8 Pro).
Being able to rehearse every single day at home and leave the acoustic kit set up at the rehearsal studio is a very priviliged position to be in.
I dispute that they don't 'sound' like acoustic kits. I also dispute that they don't particularly feel like acoustic kits.
But then, I have to bear in mind, what was the first thing I did when I had the spare cash to invest in my E Kit...purchased an A Kit for live gigs and rehearsals...which probably tells the story really
Being able to rehearse every single day at home and leave the acoustic kit set up at the rehearsal studio is a very priviliged position to be in.
I dispute that they don't 'sound' like acoustic kits. I also dispute that they don't particularly feel like acoustic kits.
But then, I have to bear in mind, what was the first thing I did when I had the spare cash to invest in my E Kit...purchased an A Kit for live gigs and rehearsals...which probably tells the story really
I never got the whole A vs. E thing. It's like asking what's better, an acoustic guitar or an electric guitar. The answer is "well, what do you want to do with it?" Similar thing to the difference between a piano and a keyboard as well.
That said, I have a Roland TD3 I got used and practice at home on. Spend a bit of time getting the sensitivities and all that set right and miss triggers and double trigers are nearly non existant (well, except I can't get away with resting the kick beater on the pad unnoticed...). I like both.
That said, I have a Roland TD3 I got used and practice at home on. Spend a bit of time getting the sensitivities and all that set right and miss triggers and double trigers are nearly non existant (well, except I can't get away with resting the kick beater on the pad unnoticed...). I like both.
I was thinking the same thing...
My experience is that...yes...you can avoid visits from your landlord/police by playing an e-kit...usually.
...but...they do not approximate a read set closely enough to truly replace it.
in fact, they develop some bad habits.
I don't suggest going the e-kit route unless you truly want to play an electronic drum set....not as a replacement or stop-gap.
Andy
Honorary Member
hehe....I just clicked on his facebook page and he has this posted
Sticks and Thrones Percussion. We buy and sell used drums. Specializing in electronic drums.
definitely false intentions!
Sticks&Thrones
Junior Member
You guys definitely didn't understand the point of what I was trying to say. I'm not talking about the Roland TD-10. I'm saying that TODAY they're a lot better than they USED TO be. In other words, the TD-30KV is a lot better than the TD-10. The TD-30 has behavior modelling, with velocity sensing, so it can tell when you're playing faster and adjusts the sound accordingly to sound closer to an acoustic set. It can tell when you're doing a cymbal swell and adjusts the sound accordingly. It has positional sensing so it can tell where on the drum you are hitting, and adjusts the sound accordingly, even on rim shots. So if you hit more towards the edge of the drum, it makes a tighter sound. It even makes slightly different sounds each time you hit the same drum so it doesn't sound as electronic. It's really pretty nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbUWOo16jq0&feature=g-user-p&list=PLR0KtnsNUJ5Z9iM8_9Lm92d4tX1BU_pGv
Also, again, I didn't say it replaces an acoustic set. If I could have an acoustic set right now, I would. And I'd play it more than the electric. But in my situation, I can't. The point was to say that it's a great alternative for those who might have trouble, like me, playing an acoustic set in their living conditions. It does create a bad habit or two because of the differences, but it's either that or not playing at all for me. My only friend with a drum set just sold it, so my only other alternative would be to go to Guitar Center every day and play on the demo sets.
About the advertisement stuff. Not at all. I think it would be so fun to open up a drum shop. But I haven't yet. I did buy and sell a few drum sets (both electronic and acoustic) locally, and then I got a little ambitious and made a FaceBook page. But do I have a business yet? Nope. I currently don't have one single thing for sale.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
+1
The below reply hit the nail on the head.
Bo Eder
Platinum Member
I checked out the TD30, and no, it's not that much better than the TD10. It's still what it is: an electronic simulation.
Personally, I've always advocated trying mesh heads on a regular drumset so you get a closer feel and the spacing of an actual set of drums if you wanted to play silently. I did this exact thing with a Sonor Safari kit and it works great. It's for practice, right?
Why people are so stuck on having to hear a sound is beyond me. And to spend anything over $4000 for it I don't understand. For the price of the TD30, you could get a nice gigging acoustic kit, and still get a second kit with mesh heads for practice. And probably still save a bit of money as well.
If your goal is to actually play it out on a gig, that's one thing. Or if you're Omar Hakim or Bill Bruford and have pads interspersed with your acoustic kit, then that's another thing. But if your intention is to use it for practice because you need to be silent because of your living conditions, I think it's a waste of money.
And if you were to be playing out live, let's consider your cost: You've spent some $5000 on your TD30's. Now you need your own PA for it too, so what's that, at least another $2000 if you're going to do it right? You've just spent $7000. If that's your budget, do you know how many fully-outfitted professional acoustic kits you can get for under $4000? Add another $600 for a Sonor Safari with hardware and cheap cymbals, and mesh heads and neoprene pads for the cheap cymbals and you've spent less than $5000. Or less than $4000 if you're smarter. So the money issue doesn't add-up either.
Speaking with audience people, they like to see and hear real drums. The traditional look of a band with a drumset is what everybody likes and wants to hear. Even Depeche Mode came back looking like a traditional band now.
To me its a matter or priorities. What is your end intention? To be the best V-drum player on the planet? Or to be able to play acoustic drums well with a group of musicians? That question alone will answer what you should do. To not even be aware of the mesh head idea on acoustic drums is naive, don't you think?
Sticks&Thrones
Junior Member
Correction on a few things. The TD-30 has major improvements since the TD-10, from sounds, to technology, to the pads that come with it. Also, between buying and selling and keeping the pieces I want, I've ended up spending a total of $350 on my drum set, including all hardware, pedals, throne, and headphones.
I AM aware of the idea of using mesh heads on acoustic drums, however, I've never tried it and don't know how much, if at all, it changes the sound(not just the volume). I'm glad that works for you, but it wouldn't work for me because I personally like the loudness of drums. Trust me, I used to not like electronic drums either. I tried other alternatives before electronic drums when I lived at my parents house, like the drum mutes, but I didn't like them. The only way for it to be loud for me but quiet for everyone else, is if it's coming through my headphones. I do protect my ears, I wore Vic Firth isolation headphones when I played acoustic and I keep it at a reasonable volume with my electric set, but still the volume at which I like to hear the drums would be too loud for the people upstairs, so it needs to come through headphones, that's my only option.
Any time I have ever played a gig it has been with an acoustic set. Although some people are starting to play with electronic, even Rex Hardy Jr. is using a Roland TD-30 on American Idol, I personally prefer acoustic when playing live. So I agree with you there. I'm currently not in a band though, and don't plan to be any time soon, so that doesn't apply to me right now.
In the near future, I hope to buy an acoustic set, and convert it to electric. A little farther down the road, when I have my own place, I will go back to acoustic. I've been looking at Anchor Drums and they're making me really wish I could buy an acoustic set right now, but I'll have to wait (this is not an advertisement, I am in no way affiliated with Anchor Drums. Nor am I affiliated with Vic Firth, Rex Hardy Jr., or American Idol for that matter).
I probably should have named it something else, but this thread isn't an argument about which is better, acoustic or electric. It's just to talk about how electrics compare to acoustics, and to make people think about researching the new electronic drums, since many people may not be aware of the advancements they've made in the past few years. I also was not aware of these advancements until recently. This information could be helpful for other people in my situation.
I found a solution that worked for me, and was trying to HELP by letting others know about it, I was trying to inform people that might still have the same view on electronic drums as I had until a few months ago. If electronic drums still don't do it for you, then don't buy one. But it's definitely a good alternative for people in my sitiation.
I AM aware of the idea of using mesh heads on acoustic drums, however, I've never tried it and don't know how much, if at all, it changes the sound(not just the volume). I'm glad that works for you, but it wouldn't work for me because I personally like the loudness of drums. Trust me, I used to not like electronic drums either. I tried other alternatives before electronic drums when I lived at my parents house, like the drum mutes, but I didn't like them. The only way for it to be loud for me but quiet for everyone else, is if it's coming through my headphones. I do protect my ears, I wore Vic Firth isolation headphones when I played acoustic and I keep it at a reasonable volume with my electric set, but still the volume at which I like to hear the drums would be too loud for the people upstairs, so it needs to come through headphones, that's my only option.
Any time I have ever played a gig it has been with an acoustic set. Although some people are starting to play with electronic, even Rex Hardy Jr. is using a Roland TD-30 on American Idol, I personally prefer acoustic when playing live. So I agree with you there. I'm currently not in a band though, and don't plan to be any time soon, so that doesn't apply to me right now.
In the near future, I hope to buy an acoustic set, and convert it to electric. A little farther down the road, when I have my own place, I will go back to acoustic. I've been looking at Anchor Drums and they're making me really wish I could buy an acoustic set right now, but I'll have to wait (this is not an advertisement, I am in no way affiliated with Anchor Drums. Nor am I affiliated with Vic Firth, Rex Hardy Jr., or American Idol for that matter).
I probably should have named it something else, but this thread isn't an argument about which is better, acoustic or electric. It's just to talk about how electrics compare to acoustics, and to make people think about researching the new electronic drums, since many people may not be aware of the advancements they've made in the past few years. I also was not aware of these advancements until recently. This information could be helpful for other people in my situation.
I found a solution that worked for me, and was trying to HELP by letting others know about it, I was trying to inform people that might still have the same view on electronic drums as I had until a few months ago. If electronic drums still don't do it for you, then don't buy one. But it's definitely a good alternative for people in my sitiation.
toddmc
Gold Member
Can't understand this logic (or lack thereof) at all.
I've done exactly what you've described for my kit, the only difference being I've dropped in some triggers so I can actually (God forbid) hear a sound when I play them.
I understand what you're saying re: the cost cutting aspect of silent practice at home (ie you've saved money by not having to buy a module or triggers) but for me this would be a pointless exercise as this is the only kit I have to play on and I would rather hear a "manufactured/ fake" sound than just the sound of a stick bouncing off a mesh head.
SquadLeader
Gold Member
It's a waste of money to want to hear drums sound like drums when practicing personally, and quietly at home ?
Ridiculous assertion...with the utmost of respect.
chipotle
Senior Member
For myself, in my current situation, I wouldn't have been able to take up drums again if not for electronic drums. Practice pads don't come close to substituting the value of an electronic kit. What fun would it be to play along with recorded music on practice pads? In fact the variety of sounds from an e-kit is even an advantage over an a-kit. Like my 3 zone ride cymbal. I have the edge zone set to be a crash and the rest of the cymbal is a ride. It's more of a crash/ride than any a-cymbal could ever be.
Though I would like to still have my old Gretsch kit, (even though I wouldn't be able to play it in my current abode) and would rather play an a-kit, this e-kit is great for me.
Though I would like to still have my old Gretsch kit, (even though I wouldn't be able to play it in my current abode) and would rather play an a-kit, this e-kit is great for me.
skod
Senior Member
I have both and play both: they each have their places. There are a couple of occasional gigs I have where the other musicians would flat-out refuse to play with me if I brought my E-kit. Fine, no great shakes- that's what led me to restore my A-kit, and fall back in love with it again after years of being an E-only guy. But in my studio, for some of the collaborative stuff I do, the E-kit actually has some advantages: not the least of which is allowing me to trivially print a MIDI track of my work, and send it off to collaborators who can then do whatever they want with swapping in different sounds or whatnot (from BFD, DFH, or any of the other many VST instruments that consume MIDI and make sounds). It is also always ready to go the minute inspiration strikes: it is always patched up and ready to track to audio, MIDI or both, without needing mics to be dragged out and hours of futzing with around with rope salad to be done before any music can be recorded. That's a huge advantage, at least to me. Anything that can be done to avoid analysis paralysis in the studio is a good investment, to my way of thinking...
It is very nice having both set up all the time. When my wife is home, I practice on the E-kit (Hart Dynamics mesh-head kit) to preserve her ears. When she's out, I play the A-kit with great joy and abandon, and scare the crap out of the pets.
I have the two kits set up to exactly mimic each other to the extent physically possible. There are essentially no spacing or height differences, the cymbals and pedals are in the same places, and so on. Since I usually play with my eyes closed when practicing, that's pretty key to me. So the idea that E-kits necessarily feel *vastly* different from A-kits is not quite accurate- you can get them very close indeed. Different, yes, especially the cymbals, but not unusably different. Here's a picture that is about a year old- things have evolved a little since this was taken, but it shows a little of what I'm talking about:
One caveat, though: if your style involves digging into the rims, or you have a heavy foot, the E-kit will not be as much quieter than the A-kit as you might think: the impact noises carry a long way. The mesh heads themselves are quite quiet, but the sound of stick impacting on a rim will still shake the floor.
The other caveat: in my opinion, it is much better to start out on an A-kit, so that whatever setup you settle on will be mechanically achieveable with real drums. You can set up an E-kit smooshed together so tightly that there's no way to put real drums up like that- and then when transitioning, the spacings necessarily blow out and you get to start over again.
Hope this helps! Your mileage may vary: there are as many correct approaches as there are drummers!
It is very nice having both set up all the time. When my wife is home, I practice on the E-kit (Hart Dynamics mesh-head kit) to preserve her ears. When she's out, I play the A-kit with great joy and abandon, and scare the crap out of the pets.
I have the two kits set up to exactly mimic each other to the extent physically possible. There are essentially no spacing or height differences, the cymbals and pedals are in the same places, and so on. Since I usually play with my eyes closed when practicing, that's pretty key to me. So the idea that E-kits necessarily feel *vastly* different from A-kits is not quite accurate- you can get them very close indeed. Different, yes, especially the cymbals, but not unusably different. Here's a picture that is about a year old- things have evolved a little since this was taken, but it shows a little of what I'm talking about:
One caveat, though: if your style involves digging into the rims, or you have a heavy foot, the E-kit will not be as much quieter than the A-kit as you might think: the impact noises carry a long way. The mesh heads themselves are quite quiet, but the sound of stick impacting on a rim will still shake the floor.
The other caveat: in my opinion, it is much better to start out on an A-kit, so that whatever setup you settle on will be mechanically achieveable with real drums. You can set up an E-kit smooshed together so tightly that there's no way to put real drums up like that- and then when transitioning, the spacings necessarily blow out and you get to start over again.
Hope this helps! Your mileage may vary: there are as many correct approaches as there are drummers!
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MisterZero
Senior Member
I play my Gretsch for gigs and at band practice, then I have a Roland TD-6 at my house for personal practice. I agree it's not as good as A kits, but I do like it and have fun playing on it. My biggest beef with E-kits are the hi hats. I've never really got a decent feeling hi hat, they always had a different bounce (so do the other pads) than authentic acoustic. The toms and snare and I can handle as far as feel goes, but the hi hat, no way. just awful. and playing a fast tempo 16th notes with one hand on hi hat hurts after a while....
All in all, though, i do like having an E kit. I may be purchasing an A kit for the house noew that we have a lot more room, but i would still keep my Rolands, too. plus, the kids like horsing around on it
All in all, though, i do like having an E kit. I may be purchasing an A kit for the house noew that we have a lot more room, but i would still keep my Rolands, too. plus, the kids like horsing around on it
SquadLeader
Gold Member
I have both and play both: they each have their places. There are a couple of occasional gigs I have where the other musicians would flat-out refuse to play with me if I brought my E-kit. Fine, no great shakes- that's what led me to restore my A-kit, and fall back in love with it again after years of being an E-only guy. But in my studio, for some of the collaborative stuff I do, the E-kit actually has some advantages: not the least of which is allowing me to trivially print a MIDI track of my work, and send it off to collaborators who can then do whatever they want with swapping in different sounds or whatnot (from BFD, DFH, or any of the other many VST instruments that consume MIDI and make sounds). It is also always ready to go the minute inspiration strikes: it is always patched up and ready to track to audio, MIDI or both, without needing mics to be dragged out and hours of futzing with around with rope salad to be done before any music can be recorded. That's a huge advantage, at least to me. Anything that can be done to avoid analysis paralysis in the studio is a good investment, to my way of thinking...
It is very nice having both set up all the time. When my wife is home, I practice on the E-kit (Hart Dynamics mesh-head kit) to preserve her ears. When she's out, I play the A-kit with great joy and abandon, and scare the crap out of the pets.
I have the two kits set up to exactly mimic each other to the extent physically possible. There are essentially no spacing or height differences, the cymbals and pedals are in the same places, and so on. Since I usually play with my eyes closed when practicing, that's pretty key to me. So the idea that E-kits necessarily feel *vastly* different from A-kits is not quite accurate- you can get them very close indeed. Different, yes, especially the cymbals, but not unusably different. Here's a picture that is about a year old- things have evolved a little since this was taken, but it shows a little of what I'm talking about:
One caveat, though: if your style involves digging into the rims, or you have a heavy foot, the E-kit will not be as much quieter than the A-kit as you might think: the impact noises carry a long way. The mesh heads themselves are quite quiet, but the sound of stick impacting on a rim will still shake the floor.
The other caveat: in my opinion, it is much better to start out on an A-kit, so that whatever setup you settle on will be mechanically achieveable with real drums. You can set up an E-kit smooshed together so tightly that there's no way to put real drums up like that- and then when transitioning, the spacings necessarily blow out and you get to start over again.
Hope this helps! Your mileage may vary: there are as many correct approaches as there are drummers!
That's a great post there...
Aicdrummer
Member
Electric drums are great if you live in an apartment or something and they have all thise diffrent kind of kits built in but you do not get the same feel as you do with an acoustic kit
New Tricks
Platinum Member
You don't get the same feel. It's not all that different for some people and, for me, it's close enough.