V-Drums Hi-Hat stand messing up my technique?

MrWriter

Active Member
So, is this just how electronic Hi-Hats on a traditional Hi-Hat stand are or is there a fault or set-up issue with mine?

I have a Roland V-drums kit, decent one, with a Roland VH-11 Hi-Hat mounted onto a Mapex Hi-Hat stand.

The trouble I have with this (and I’ve heard from a V-drummer friend of mine that this is just how electric kits are) is that about 30 percent of my open hi-hat hits don’t sound open, they sound closed, and to compensate for this I have to open the hi-hat slightly in advance of what I’d do on an acoustic kit with traditional hats.

It’s annoying having to adjust my technique to open up the hats just a little bit sooner than typical to avoid getting closed hat sounds when I want an open hat. This proves problematic when playing fast stuff with semiquaver patterns with those quick jazz-funk type snappy open close hat sounds, lots of them don’t sound.

So, is my friend right, is this just a flaw of electronic kits or is there something I can do?

I was thinking a better hat stand from the likes of Yamaha or DW. I was looking at the Yamaha HS850 or the Tama Iron Cobra HH605 perhaps, in the hope that the spring system might be more whippy and when I lift my foot the new stand might open with a more rapid response. Course, this is on the assumption that my budget Mapex is perhaps a little sluggish to open?

Which would you guys get between the Yamaha HS850 and the Tama Iron Cobra HH605?

I’ve tried various adjustments to the VH-11 and the stand - to no avail.

Anybody else having this issue? Is there a fix?
 
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iCe

Silver Member
Although I don't have that electronic kit, I did convert a kit to an electronic kit and used a hi hat stand with a controller to simulate a 'real' hihat. Spent some time dailing in the settings, but personally; it never comes close the real thing. An electric kit lacks the nuances compared to a real hi-hat. Stepping down on the pedal and opening it up builds up the sound, but with the controller and software I used (Superior Drummer 3) eventually a threshold was reached and the 'next' sound was being triggered. So you went from closed, to semi closed, half open, open. While with a real set of hats there is so much more in between and ofcourse a more natural build up. Now that i'm typing this... i do remember that i had to hit the hats and afterwards open the hats (not at the same time with my 'real' hats) to get a certain sound (like the offbeat disco sound), but it was a matter of understanding how the software would trigger a sound... but it still felt awkward compared to a real set of hats.
 

MrWriter

Active Member
Interesting, iCe, but the issues you mention are not a concern for me. I know the nuances of an acoustic kit can't be recreated on electric, but these are not my problem, my problem is simply having to open the hi-hat well in advance or I get a closed hi-hat sound. Also, I'm using the Roland TD-15 brain sounds, not triggering via software.
 
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davezedlee

Senior Member
unfortunately, you'll have to "suck it up"... the nature of e-hats is what you've described; there are "two" hihat techniques, one for acoustics and one for electrics

keep a set of acoustics or low-volume hats on a second stand, and maintain your "expressive" technique

continue to use the e-hats for general motor skills, pattern repetition and overall kit balance... and dugga-duggas ; )
 
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PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Interesting, iCe, but the issues you mention are not a concern for me. I know the nuances of an acoustic kit can't be recreated on electric, but these are not my problem, my problem is simply having to open the hi-hat well in advance or I get a closed hi-hat sound. Also, I'm using the Roland TD-15 brain sounds, not triggering via software.

I know that this can be VERY frustrating! Can you adjust any of the hat settings in the TD-15?
 
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iCe

Silver Member
Interesting, iCe, but the issues you mention are not a concern for me. I know the nuances of an acoustic kit can't be recreated on electric, but these are not my problem, my problem is simply having to open the hi-hat well in advance or I get a closed hi-hat sound. Also, I'm using the Roland TD-15 brain sounds, not triggering via software.

English is not my native language and sometimes what I try to say is lost in translation. Ment by software the broadest meaning (also the brain of a e-kit has software) and that e-kits are struggling with those nuances in playing. Also the DM10 brain has those issues. Dailing in trigger settings and knowing the limitations of the hardware (triggering) is what helped me, but still very frustrating that even when I had it dialed in I still got issues that sounds were not being (correctly) triggered.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
It knows open or closed. It doesnt know hit me closed then slowly open and make a sizzle sound. Ergo, if you hit it and it's still closed, that's what you are gonna get, a closed hat sound. And if you hit it while it's open, that's what you get, an open hat sound.
 

davezedlee

Senior Member
It knows open or closed. It doesnt know hit me closed then slowly open and make a sizzle sound. Ergo, if you hit it and it's still closed, that's what you are gonna get, a closed hat sound. And if you hit it while it's open, that's what you get, an open hat sound.
Very well put, and is exactly what happens
 

MrWriter

Active Member
There are no hat adjustments in the TD-15 that change the issue I'm having. I really do have to start to open the hat before hitting it or, like what C. Dave said, it will sound as a closed hat.
 

TMe

Senior Member
The hats are the reason I gave up on e-drums. If you think the Roland is bad, try Yamaha. They're a lot worse (at least for me).
 

Sausagetoad

Active Member
I bought a n ATV electric kit because it had the best (optical) hi-hat. But I still wound up using real hi-hat cymbals. Electric hi-hats...(n)
 

charliedrummer

Senior Member
I feel for you. When I switched over to an e-kit with a VH-12 hi-hat, I immediately found that it did not respond in the same manner as my acoustic hi-hat. I had to learn to adjust my playing to get the response and sounds I wanted. It worked out fine but then I had to re-adjust my playing when I went back to an acoustic kit exclusively a few years ago. I also found that I had to adjust my playing for the Roland ride cymbal. I'm glad those days are behind me.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
I haven't played an E-kit in many years, but I used to own one. I always thought playing an e-kit was a different technique than an acoustic kit.
 

Sausagetoad

Active Member
I haven't played an E-kit in many years, but I used to own one. I always thought playing an e-kit was a different technique than an acoustic kit.
E-kits are great for kicks & toms, even crash cymbals now that they have ones you can choke. But hi-hats, no. Snares are a bit iffy as well, but doable.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
I haven't played an E-kit in many years, but I used to own one. I always thought playing an e-kit was a different technique than an acoustic kit.
Once I was FORCED to play an ekit at church, due to someone's great idea of it being the only way to control volume...I was cured of ever wanting one. Way too impactful to my real playing. It very much impacted my technique, not to mention the frustration of absolutely nothing resembling finesse coming through. The church kits were far from cheap!
 

TMe

Senior Member
To be fair, I've tried a few Roland kits in stores recently and the hats seemed to work fine for me. The Yamaha hats don't seem to have improved over the years at all.
 

toddmc

Gold Member
Other than upgrading all the way to the VH-14D along with a TD50X module (and having to take out a 2nd mortgage in the process), not sure what else you can do to improve the situation given you've tweaked all the settings to no avail.

I wouldn't bother with a brand new hi-hat stand (unless you're unhappy with your current one) as it's not going to improve pad responsiveness but at least the open/ close might feel smoother for you.
 

MrWriter

Active Member
New Yamaha hi-hat stand arriving tomorrow, should, hopefully, at least feel smoother and more responsive, and I'll do some tweaks in the module and hopefully that combo will get me closer.
 

fobz

Active Member
Hi hats on all electronic kits suck, and we're still a long way off getting anywhere close to the real thing. The time delay is a pain, and the range of sounds you can get out of a real hi hat can't be replicated on an electronic kit....
 

MrWriter

Active Member
Ok, here we go. Yamaha HS850 hi-hat stand arrived, but the footboard angle is so steep it's like walking up a bloody steep hill when your foot is just resting on it. So I ordered the Yamaha HS1200 as that has an adjustable footboard angle setting.

New Yamaha HS1200 Hi-Hat stand arrived, after paying £240 for it, £100 more than the HS850 so basically £100 for a footboard angle adjuster setting via nuts adjusted with drum key. Turns out that the footboard hight/angle adjustment is adjustable, but from high to very high - totally pointless. Even on its lowest setting it is still higher than my basic Mapex hat stand and that has no adjustment at all. Also, after trying all these other hi-hat stands, they are no different to my basic Mapex model when it comes to triggering etc on my Roland V-kit so, sod it, I'll stick with the Mapex and be done with it.
 
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