Slow bass drum playing
- Thread starter LacKB
- Start date
Old Dog new Cans
Senior Member
Yep. You just have to take some steps back, and then slowly progress again.
How long have you been playing double bass?
This happens to everyone. It could be lack of practice, too much practice, something in your head, or your body trying to find an easier technique.
Has anything changed with your gear?
Sorry for all the questions. Those of us who do play double kick and can help you need to know this stuff. Tell us more about your feet. And anything else maybe you might think is relevant to the issue.
This happens to everyone. It could be lack of practice, too much practice, something in your head, or your body trying to find an easier technique.
Has anything changed with your gear?
Sorry for all the questions. Those of us who do play double kick and can help you need to know this stuff. Tell us more about your feet. And anything else maybe you might think is relevant to the issue.
bud7h4
Silver Member
Are you saying the problem is with 150 and above, or just in the 150 range alone?
Between 155 and 165 is where I transition from leg motion to ankle motion, and for a long time this was an awkward tempo for me.
My advice is when you practice play at a comfortable but challenging speed for a long time, like several minutes.
Also don't always play 16ths. Practice 16th note triplets too (example: the Painkiller chorus). Trust me, playing triplets increases speed.
As others said, this happens to everyone, or most people. I went through it for at least a year.
Between 155 and 165 is where I transition from leg motion to ankle motion, and for a long time this was an awkward tempo for me.
My advice is when you practice play at a comfortable but challenging speed for a long time, like several minutes.
Also don't always play 16ths. Practice 16th note triplets too (example: the Painkiller chorus). Trust me, playing triplets increases speed.
As others said, this happens to everyone, or most people. I went through it for at least a year.
I think Like half year maybe more.
Nothing changed with my gear, i only started adjusting Pedal angle, beater angle etc. When it happends to me.
And here is one think that i dont write when I want to go fast i cant go at one tempo, for example iam playing 140 bpm and i want to go Like 200 bpm i start doing ankle motion but Like ascending from 170 bpm to 220 bpm BUT ONLY ON FAST TEMPOS.
A half year is not very long. I've been at double bass for 28 years now and still have days where my feet don't cooperate. Not nearly as often anymore, but it still happens.
Sounds like when you go slow you are all legs. When your legs reach a certain speed your ankles want to take over. You have to teach your ankles how to go slow. It's just a time thing. Keep doing it and it will iron itself out.
You should be using a click too. It forces you to keep your feet even. It also shows you how your speed improves, so you can actually see your improvement.
Stop adjusting things for now. You need to get the feet working correctly before making improvements. Once their even and in control, and you see no improvements, then you look at the pedal.
Sounds like when you go slow you are all legs. When your legs reach a certain speed your ankles want to take over. You have to teach your ankles how to go slow. It's just a time thing. Keep doing it and it will iron itself out.
You should be using a click too. It forces you to keep your feet even. It also shows you how your speed improves, so you can actually see your improvement.
Stop adjusting things for now. You need to get the feet working correctly before making improvements. Once their even and in control, and you see no improvements, then you look at the pedal.
Benthedrummer
Silver Member
One thing I like to do when something stumps me is to utilise the tempo trainer on my metronome app.
I start the exercise VERY slowly at around 40 to 50 bpm and follow the metronome as it gradually increases in speed then decreases in speed.
I always set the max speed about 10 to 15 bpm before I start to lose my bodily functions.
It's a good thing to do to spice things up occasionally.
I start the exercise VERY slowly at around 40 to 50 bpm and follow the metronome as it gradually increases in speed then decreases in speed.
I always set the max speed about 10 to 15 bpm before I start to lose my bodily functions.
It's a good thing to do to spice things up occasionally.
johnwesley
Silver Member
It happens to athletes all the time. You can't throw a 98 mph fastball every pitch or a 3 pointer each time you try. If you could you'd be a robot. A little off subject but thought I'd remind you that slow ain't all that bad.
R I.P. James “Turtle” Morgan 1917-2015
Born in 1917, Morgan was a pioneer in slow speed drumming specializing in waltzes and 3 measure ostinatos. He got the nickname "Turtle" while playing the Blue Ridge circuit with the Stan Jenkins Aristocracy in the late 30's. Seems he couldn't find the right sticks for the song being played and by the time he did, the song was over and all he could add was a cymbal crash. One of the bandmates yelled "Nice job, but slower than a turtle." From that night forward, "Turtle" Morgan purposely played no more than 10 beats per minute, no matter what the tempo and slowly developed the reputation as the slowest drummer in modern music. It's said that many times he played with only one hand, leaving his other free for combing his hair, smoking a cigarette, or just plain resting his chin on his palm. "Turtle" passed on March 15th at his desert home in Tortuga Arizona. His final words to family and friends, "It's been a long 98 years!"
R I.P. James “Turtle” Morgan 1917-2015
Born in 1917, Morgan was a pioneer in slow speed drumming specializing in waltzes and 3 measure ostinatos. He got the nickname "Turtle" while playing the Blue Ridge circuit with the Stan Jenkins Aristocracy in the late 30's. Seems he couldn't find the right sticks for the song being played and by the time he did, the song was over and all he could add was a cymbal crash. One of the bandmates yelled "Nice job, but slower than a turtle." From that night forward, "Turtle" Morgan purposely played no more than 10 beats per minute, no matter what the tempo and slowly developed the reputation as the slowest drummer in modern music. It's said that many times he played with only one hand, leaving his other free for combing his hair, smoking a cigarette, or just plain resting his chin on his palm. "Turtle" passed on March 15th at his desert home in Tortuga Arizona. His final words to family and friends, "It's been a long 98 years!"
C.M. Jones
Diamond Member
Interesting thread. In thirty-six years of drumming, I've never even sat down behind a kit with a double bass or a double pedal, but it's always been a sort of exotic curiosity for me. My style is very hi-hat oriented, and I can't imagine removing my left foot from my hi-hat pedal for even a tenth of a second. Doing so would be like leaping from a plane without a parachute. Still, I've encountered some lighting-fast double-bass drummers over the years and have always been impressed by their legwork. It's just a method for which I've never had practical application.
Try it. It's good fun! If you don't like it, you can always go back. And you will have satisfied that curiosity also.
Benthedrummer
Silver Member
I was adamant about not using a double pedal for ages.
I don't know what convinced me to start using one......no drummer or song persuaded me, I THINK it was my local drum shop had the DW 3000 double pedal on special for $100 AUD.
So I threw caution, safety, my sanity, and some household objects to the wind and got one.
I developed a new vocabulary and an extra element to my practice.
I can add little 16th note flurries to fills when I play Wipeout and make some grooves sound really big and full.
You can add different beaters for a different sound.
It's a handy tool to have.
I reckon go for it.
I don't know what convinced me to start using one......no drummer or song persuaded me, I THINK it was my local drum shop had the DW 3000 double pedal on special for $100 AUD.
So I threw caution, safety, my sanity, and some household objects to the wind and got one.
I developed a new vocabulary and an extra element to my practice.
I can add little 16th note flurries to fills when I play Wipeout and make some grooves sound really big and full.
You can add different beaters for a different sound.
It's a handy tool to have.
I reckon go for it.
C.M. Jones
Diamond Member
Oh, man, I've always been too tied to my hi-hat to fool around with a second bass pedal. The hi-hat is the centerpiece of all my work. Even when I close it tightly for optimal stick articulation, I'm keeping time on it with my heel. My hi-hat is in motion during all my ride patterns and fills as well. It's my tireless pulse of percussive guidance. Abandoning the hi-hat for even a brief double-bass riff is unthinkable. I'm having an anxiety attack just pondering it.
To all you double-bass bandits out there, I do respect your thunderous contributions. But I need one foot on the brake and the other on the gas. My hi-hat has always been my gas pedal.
C.M. Jones
Diamond Member
Yeah, I have no doubt double bass is a very versatile tool. See my previous reply regarding why it's just not for me.
Benthedrummer
Silver Member
Yeah.....fair call.
beyondbetrayal
Platinum Member
I hate to say it, but I doubt your playing tight consistent 16th notes at 210bpm after half a year. It takes MANY years to get fast and tight with double bass, Feel free to post a video, but it takes years, and i mean like full songs.. not little bursts of double bass. My band sometimes has 5 minutes with a TON of double kick at high speeds and it kills the legs.
That being said, everyone hits plateaus, or end up slower for a while. it happens. the trick is to slow way down, also playing somethign else for a while can help too. work on doing some rudiments with your feet, or work on your hands for a few days. If you push too hard too many days in a row it's not good. You don't work out the same muscle group every day in a row when you are hitting the gym.
That being said, everyone hits plateaus, or end up slower for a while. it happens. the trick is to slow way down, also playing somethign else for a while can help too. work on doing some rudiments with your feet, or work on your hands for a few days. If you push too hard too many days in a row it's not good. You don't work out the same muscle group every day in a row when you are hitting the gym.
Nilsdrums
Junior Member
I hope you're right! I'm fairly new to double-kick drumming as I mostly played rock, jazz and Jazz fusion for the last years. I have been playing some double kick for a few years but only at slow speed and I started practicing it at speeds above 120 bpm just a couple of months back. Now I usually can do sixteenth notes at around 145bpm and one practice session I could easily play 170-180bpm about a month ago but today when practicing I could barley do a bar of sixteenth notes at 130 bpm. I do practice 2-4 hours every day and at least 1 hour of that is purely double kick so maybe I'll just have to switch it up and not do double kick every day.
Also btw are you the same as the YouTuber beyondbetrayal? I love your tune bot tuning videos!
beyondbetrayal
Platinum Member
Thanks man. And yes that's me. 2-4 hours a day is quite a bit. that is fantastic.
I'll hit times where my max drops down a bit. the key is to practice at a speed for a few minutes.. So what if I can do something for 20 seconds. If that's the case you are pushing it out too hard. if you can play consistent for a few minutes the chances of not being able to do it the following day are much less.
A lot of it comes down to changing settings and your ergonomics too. If you are pushing, reaching, or straining to play you need to change it. Also don't change your settings every day. most drumming is muscle memory.
Nilsdrums
Junior Member
Thanks for the answer! Changing my settings is nothing for me as I have barely ever touched my pedal settings since buying it quite some years ago hahaha. When practising yesterday and today I could do shorter bursts(a few bars) of 170bpm but then I just turned it down and played at 135-140bpm a couple of minutes. I actually took a song from the band I've auditioned for which is around 135-140bpm and played sixteenth notes during the whole song except for the verses to train my endurance. However later after a few hours of practising(throughout the day not in a row), I had a harder time with it but I guess the muscles just have to get more used to it and I need to rest some? Maybe take the next day off(or at least not play as much double kick)
MntnMan62
Silver Member
Playing things at slower tempos properly is always harder. Most of the time people think that slowing things down is essential in order to learn things that are more complicated, which is still true. But I learned a long time ago that once I got the rythmn down I could speed it up pretty quickly. But the problem is that if I sped it up too soon, I realized that I didn't really learn how to play the rythmn slowly and therefore didn't truly learn to play it well. I realize I'm being repetitive but it makes sense in my own warped mind. I guess what I'm trying to say is you haven't really learned how to play something unless you can play it slow, fast and everything in between.