Sabian cleaning problem

pbm2112

Senior Member
Hi - I've used some groove juice (which has always worked well in the past) on my Artisans and this is what's happened - a dark mottling to the finish in normal light. Under direct lighting they look shiny and nice. They sound the same so it's not the end of the world, but is there anything I can do to get them looking nice and even?
 

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pgm554

Platinum Member
Looks like the Sabian coating is reacting with the groove Juice.

If you want back to factory spec ,I would send in for a refresh for $40 bucks to Sabian.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
The times I've used groove juice, if I spray it on, it always comes out spotty and streaky.
If you put it on a rag and then run it around the grooves - not so much.
Anyways, it's happened enough that I don't use it anymore.

I've got a selection of stuff that gets them back to looking somewhat normal,
but it takes off any protective factory coating.
Then they require a bit of maintenance.
 

Wave Deckel

Gold Member
Errrmmmm... that cymbal has a traditional finish. You are supposed to not use anything except a dry cloth for cleaning cymbals like those. Otherwise, the finish and coating gets ruined. Every cymbalmaker urges people to not use cymbal cleaners on tradtional finish-cymbals.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I don't see a reference to traditional finish cymbals:
http://www.groovejuiceinc.com/products/groove-juice-cymbal-cleaner/

only "Cymbal Cleaner Intended Usage:
Groove Juice Cymbal Cleaner was formulated for use on high quality professional bronze cymbals."

It does say: "DO NOT USE THIS CLEANER ON COATED CYMBALS"
but I thought pretty much all cymbals were coated these days.


Edit: also, the only reference to cleaning (other than their re-conditioning program),
that I can find on Sabian's site is toward the bottom of this page:
http://www.sabian.com/en/accessories/keys-and-cleaners
for their brand specific cleaner.

"...use with all SABIAN cymbals from B8 through Hand Hammered, and both Natural and Brilliant finishes..."


.
 
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crispycritters

Senior Member
I don't see a reference to traditional finish cymbals:
http://www.groovejuiceinc.com/products/groove-juice-cymbal-cleaner/

only "Cymbal Cleaner Intended Usage:
Groove Juice Cymbal Cleaner was formulated for use on high quality professional bronze cymbals."

It does say: "DO NOT USE THIS CLEANER ON COATED CYMBALS"
but I thought pretty much all cymbals were coated these days.
Some brilliant finish cymbals are given a light dusting of clear coat, but that's because they don't want them to tarnish before sale, a cleaning or two will completely remove it - but its not the same as the coating on regular finish B20 (or B8 cymbals), which should be just wiped, its similar to clear coat on cars - if you use cymbal cleaning products you'll wear it away, or stain it.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
I sigh whenever I see that someone has fallen for the cymbal cleaner scam and stripped off a protective coating with oxalic or citric acid. Bonus points for when they don't completely rinse it off or neutralize it so they get brown spots.

@OP

I don't wanna pick on you, but what was it that made you take the leap beyond a towel and water? Did you try water first, and it didn't work?
 

pbm2112

Senior Member
I sigh whenever I see that someone has fallen for the cymbal cleaner scam and stripped off a protective coating with oxalic or citric acid. Bonus points for when they don't completely rinse it off or neutralize it so they get brown spots.

@OP

I don't wanna pick on you, but what was it that made you take the leap beyond a towel and water? Did you try water first, and it didn't work?
Your answer is interesting. What does it matter what my reason was? I sigh when I see people come here to admonish and show off their great patronising ‘wisdom’ rather than simply help a member of their community or just say nothing if they can’t help. Sure, this is only a cymbal - no big deal - but your attitude is so much a part of why times are as they are; all ego and narcissism, no compassion. I hope you are just too young to know better.
 

pbm2112

Senior Member
The weird thing is I've used Groove Juice for 10 years and have always had great results on many different brands of traditional finish cymbals... until now.
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
Reapply groove juice for 30 seconds.
Rinse for a few minutes.
Dry it, then apply wax to seal it - car wax, furniture polish & wax, clear protectant polish of some kind.

There's a sticky thread about cleaning cymbals. Have a bit of a read through when you get a chance.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I buy a lot of used cymbals, and some of them are in unbelievably disgusting condition.
So I've tried a ton of stuff cleaning them, from traditional cymbal cleaners to chrome polish,
toilet bowl cleaner, mag wheel polish, bar keepers friend,
and pretty much everything else mentioned in the cymbal cleaning thread.

For new cymbals I get now, I don't bother doing much besides the occasional dusting and light wax coating.

For your Sabian, I don't think you're going to be able to avoid removing whatever protective coating is on there.
You might end up removing the labeling too.
If you've got to have it looking like new again, your best bet is probably the Sabian reconditioning program.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
Simple. Don't clean em.

I really do find a few years of not being cleaned and gigging make em sound much better and less harsh.. I take em in bag and don't abuse em so they are not disgusting used cymbals though. That is a different story.

I'm into sound over aesthetics myself though. If you need em super clean and shining I would spray a rag first, or make sure the whole cymbal is soaked with cleaner so you get an even cleaning. Or hold the spray VERY far back

Think of people spray painting a car, you hold in one spot too long, don't apply evenly, get too close, etc you won't have an even paint job.

Logos are the same, I know what I own, I don't need them to be perfect, but if you don't clean em, the logos stay strong.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
The groove juice I've used doesn't spray out nice like a spray gun. It kind of half sprays and half dribbles out dots and drips. That's what makes it clean spotty.
If you had a big vat of it that you could dunk a cymbal into, it might work pretty good. Otherwise, soaking a rag will get you part way there.
 

pbm2112

Senior Member
Thanks for the replies. Luckily non of this cosmetic stuff is effecting the sound in a negative way, and that's what it's all about!
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Your answer is interesting. What does it matter what my reason was? I sigh when I see people come here to admonish and show off their great patronising ‘wisdom’ rather than simply help a member of their community or just say nothing if they can’t help. Sure, this is only a cymbal - no big deal - but your attitude is so much a part of why times are as they are; all ego and narcissism, no compassion. I hope you are just too young to know better.
I'm not admonishing, I'm genuinely saddened by seeing so many people fall for the scam. Re-read my post with an air of solemnity.

The fix to your situation is both simple and difficult.

You need to remove the outer coating of newly formed oxidation.
You need to PH neutralize the surface.
You have to re-apply a protective coating.

The last step is is the difficult part, because we really don't have the means to build a DIY brass-instrument-lacquer-vapor-chamber. If you grab the OTC stuff in a spray-can (intended for cheap trumpets), it's going to apply too thick and adversely affect the sound.

Understand that the cleaning scam is not unique to drums. I see people buying alcohol-based Screen-Cleaning wipes designed for glass and ruining the anti-reflective coating on their TVs all the time. Half of the "iWipes" on the market will ruin your iPhone/iPad. It's utterly ridiculous.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I own about 50 Sabian cymbals ranging from AA to Artisan. Most of my stuff is HH/HHX/Artisan, but that really shouldn't matter when it comes to cleaning. I only use Sabian's cymbal cleaner:



Rinse the dust and junk off the cymbal, dry it, then spray this stuff on, wait 20-30 seconds, wipe it all off, then immediately rinse with soap and water. Add a coat of car wax to the cymbal if you want. It sounds like a lot of steps, but it takes less than 3 minutes to do a cymbal.

EDIT: The only cymbals I know of that have a coating on them from the factory are Paiste. The only cymbal cleaner that should be used on Paiste cymbals is Paiste's cleaning products. They sell a "cymbal cleaner" and a "cymbal protector" product that should be put on after cleaning. This stuff may work well on B8 cymbals from other manufacturers as well. I know of no B20 cymbals that get "coated" from the factory. Zildjian puts a coating on their Kerope cymbals, but that is to give them a special look and/or sound, not for protection against corrosion.
 
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