Metronomes vs Automated Trainers

[SmoothOperator]

I wonder if anyone makes an automated trainer for playing drums.

It seems like Metronomes are really limited for simulated real playing conditions.

I can think of a few programmable modifications to a metronome that would help.

1) A metronome that counts in at randomly different tempos, then plays 8 bars and stops then counts in again at a slightly different tempo. The idea here is to pick up and play with other peoples tempo.

2) A metronome that drops out every other bar. The idea here is to practice maintaining the beat.

3) A tone based metronome that plays a sequence of tones marking the time or form.

4) A metronome that records the pulses, and stops when it is no longer synced.

I think a sequencer program could probably do many of these, but would be sort of a pain to configure.

 

[cbphoto]

2) A metronome that drops out every other bar. The idea here is to practice maintaining the beat.

I use Drum Fun Test of Time for honing my tempo skills. It’s much more fun than playing to just a click. It has many different tempos and several odd time signature pieces (which I flub regularly).

 

[Push pull stroke]

I would love a metronome app that randomly drags and rushes the tempo, and can take YouTube videos, mp3s, etc. and randomly drag and rush the time. Because that stuff happens ALL THE TIME when playing with actual human beings. But nobody here has the imagination to see the value in the idea.

 

[mrfingers]

You could build some of this yourself using Audacity...then save as mp3 to play to.

 

[Dr_Watso]

I would love a metronome app that randomly drags and rushes the tempo, and can take YouTube videos, mp3s, etc. and randomly drag and rush the time. Because that stuff happens ALL THE TIME when playing with actual human beings. But nobody here has the imagination to see the value in the idea.

Even thought that does happen I think generally it's a response to something in the music or feel of the part. Randomizing the changes without any spur might not actually train you to do what happens IRL.

 

[Push pull stroke]

Even thought that does happen I think generally it's a response to something in the music or feel of the part. Randomizing the changes without any spur might not actually train you to do what happens IRL.

It’s still better than nothing. Granted, nothing can truly prepare you for playing with others.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Several of your requests are options on metronome apps.

If you want something really weird, just record it yourself.

Personally, I get all I need from:

1) Pro Metronome app
2) DrumJam
3) Play-a-longs like TIULID "Test of Time."

There's also Live BPM and playing with actual people.

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..If you want something really weird, just record it yourself..

Not sure if this is what you meant, but i understand this as recording your own clicktrack by just playing for example rimclicks for a while with just a metronome count off and nothing else..

That could be a brilliant idea for some people who want to practice bad time, etc..lol..

Allthough i see completely NO use at all in practicing bad time..

Practicing with a metronome that would just randomly speed up or slow down, is also not at all what making music in a band is about or simulating that in any way..

At least not within bands that are, lets say, 1 level above complete kindergarten level..

In my opinion, a drummer should be someone that the rest of the band can rely on and NOT someone who automatically follows the crap time of other players..

To me, thats a complete different thing than letting the music flow and maybe allow a few BPM difference from start to end, which should not be a problem that much..

But a band with a drummer who constantly follows bad time of other players..?

I can not imagine i would enjoy listening to that..

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Not sure if this is what you meant, but i understand this as recording your own clicktrack by just playing for example rimclicks for a while with just a metronome count off and nothing else..

Just anything that's different.

I don't really do anything weird myself. The Pro Metronome app had more than I need already and then I use DrumJam when that's what I'm in the mood for.

I have however been in recording situations where other things have been tried to inspire a certain type of feel. I didn't agree with it, but it was done.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Practicing with a metronome that would just randomly speed up or slow down, is also not at all what making music in a band is about or simulating that in any way..

That wasn't what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the metronome, count off 1,2,3,4, then click along for a say 16 or 32 bars, then stop and count off again at a different tempo randomly selected.

I think the effect could be simulated, by recording click tracks with a synth tracker then putting them into a mp3 player on shuffle.

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..That wasn't what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the metronome, count off 1,2,3,4, then click along for a say 16 or 32 bars, then stop and count off again at a different tempo randomly selected..

Yes, i know, i was not referring to what you said, but to the idea that practicing bad time is of any use..

Your suggestion i understand as being able to change very quick from one tempo to another and keep the new tempo immediately steady..

That sounds to me as a nice exercise and maybe even useful..?

 

[Push pull stroke]

Yes, i know, i was not referring to what you said, but to the idea that practicing bad time is of any use..

Your suggestion i understand as being able to change very quick from one tempo to another and keep the new tempo immediately steady..

That sounds to me as a nice exercise and maybe even useful..?

Practicing bad time is useful because 90% of the musicians that we play with, even other drummers, have flaws in their time. Of course, it’s not a perfect substitute for playing with others, but it’s better than nothing. Why are you obsessed with me? Is there really no other forum you can troll? Or is that your entire life, trolling various forums, and this is is just a small percentage of your total trolling workload? ?

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..Practicing bad time is useful..

Fine, then you go practice bad time..

To be honest, i have the feeling that you never played drums in a band..

Maybe you are a qualified timpani player, no idea, but i am pretty sure you never played drums (like on a drum set) in a band, at least not in a serious way..

How many drum teachers have you heard stress the importance of practicing bad time..?

How many lessons a channel like Drumeo has dedicated to practicing bad time..?

How many music schools, conservatoria, etc are having lessons regarding practicing bad time..?

I met quite a few teachers and skilled musicians in my life and NEVER heard any of them say that drummers should practice bad time because they have to adjust to other musicians with bad time..

Why..?

Because thats the world upside down, thats why..

Then who from the both of us is trolling actually..?

 

[Push pull stroke]

Fine, then you go practice bad time..

To be honest, i have the feeling that you never played drums in a band..

Maybe you are a qualified timpani player, no idea, but i am pretty sure you never played drums (like on a drum set) in a band, at least not in a serious way..

How many drum teachers have you heard stress the importance of practicing bad time..?

How many lessons a channel like Drumeo has dedicated to practicing bad time..?

How many music schools, conservatoria, etc are having lessons regarding practicing bad time..?

I met quite a few teachers and skilled musicians in my life and NEVER heard any of them say that drummers should practice bad time because they have to adjust to other musicians with bad time..

Why..?

Because thats the world upside down, thats why..

Then who from the both of us is trolling actually..?

Why are you a jerk to everyone here? What do you offer to us that makes the jerk behavior worth our time?

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..Why are you a jerk to everyone here? What do you offer to us that makes the jerk behavior worth our time?..

Also that is the world upside down, at least in this thread and the previous thread where you were busy with telling me that i have to f*ck off..

I can be sarcastic, which some people may not like at all, thats why i will never complain when people react back in a sarcastic way..

But i never will tell people publicly or by PM (like you have) that they have to f*ck off from the forum because they are not wanted here..

To me thats kindergarten-style-bullying and i would say against the rules..

To put things in context, i think in total over the years i reacted about 3-4 times in a sarcastic way to something you said..

Once when you said you have a better left hand than Gianluca Pellerito, once when you said Porcaro was not having the best technique and once regarding practicing bad time..

Thats that..

Thats also not “being obsessed”, i just remember when drummers on a drummer forum in my opinion say weird things regarding drumming..

To disagree with someone is allowed i would say, also in a sarcastic way and also when they are “forum stars”..

Regarding my feeling that you never played drums in a serious band, if you took that as an offense, that was not meant offensive, but just a sincere feeling i have..

And btw, yes, if someone tells a lot how fantastic he plays or which sort of weird exercises helped them a lot, then i want to see a video from that, because only written text on a forum says nothing to me..

And when i see a video, at least i can decide for myself if to take someone serious or not..

On topic, i still see no use at all with practicing bad time and i would strongly suggest to any drummer (beginner-mediocre) worldwide who reads this to not practice bad time..

Take a metronome and practice PERFECT time..

Listen to Steve Gadd and practice musical time..

But not start practicing bad time..

Nope..?

 

[Push pull stroke]

Also that is the world upside down, at least in this thread and the previous thread where you were busy with telling me that i have to f*ck off..

I can be sarcastic, which some people may not like at all, thats why i will never complain when people react back in a sarcastic way..

But i never will tell people publicly or by PM (like you have) that they have to f*ck off from the forum because they are not wanted here..

To me thats kindergarten-style-bullying and i would say against the rules..

To put things in context, i think in total over the years i reacted about 3-4 times in a sarcastic way to something you said..

Once when you said you have a better left hand than Gianluca Pellerito, once when you said Porcaro was not having the best technique and once regarding practicing bad time..

Thats that..

Thats also not “being obsessed”, i just remember when drummers on a drummer forum in my opinion

To disagree with someone is allowed i would say, also in a sarcastic way and also when they are “forum stars”..

Regarding my feeling that you never played drums in a serious band, if you took that as an offense, that was not meant offensive, but just a sincere feeling i have..

And btw, yes, if someone tells a lot how fantastic he plays or which sort of weird exercises helped them a lot, then i want to see a video from that, because only written text on a forum says nothing to me..

And when i see a video, at least i can decide for myself if to take someone serious or not..

On topic, i still see no use at all with practicing bad time and i would strongly suggest to any drummer (beginner-mediocre) worldwide who reads this to not practice bad time..

Take a metronome and practice PERFECT time..

Listen to Steve Gadd and practice musical time..

But not start practicing bad time..

Nope..?

I already have perfect time. I can bury the click at 15 bpm without subdividing. ?

Is this forum all you have in life? I’m asking sincerely. It seems like forum arguments are really important to you. I personally have limited patience for them. I’m too busy raising my kids, maintaining my home and yard, doing my day job, being a husband, and sometimes getting to drum. What else do you do besides argue with people here?

 

[Larry]

Adjusting to bad meter...only in extreme situations, only as a last resort, only if it would work. It's not the last thing I want to do, it's not even on the list of things I want to do. Hate that. It's my job to stay the course and let the others adjust, no apologies. You don't adjust the metronome during a song!
That said you do what you have to do, but that's last resort territory IMO, adjusting. It's easier to tame down or nudge up an incorrect tempo if necessary but adjusting to meter sticks out like a sore thumb

In my experience, people feel their time differently. Some people feel it a little ahead or behind my time. That used to drive me nuts with singers, until I realized that on the recording, everything sounded fine. The tension makes a great effect. It was MY problem. Singers are allowed to go all over the place.

Sometimes the singer would sound like he's dragging, but really they are wringing all they can get out of the note. I survived by not adjusting to them. They sing in, on, and around the beat. Me I have to remain tunnel-visioned as far as meter and tempo goes. It doesn't work if the beat wavers. My whole existence as a drummer depends on me being able to set the time and keep it there in spite of everyone's playing. If the band knows that I'm not budging, if they can get a sense of OK this guys tempo and meter feel just right...they usually happily surrender and adjust to the drums. And for those who don't surrender, I provide reliable, relentless markers so that person can spin off and still be tethered to earth. And that's what sounds best to the audience IMO. It's awkward when a drummer adjusts. Cringeville.

I'd like to think we practice perfect time so we can assert ourselves naturally and confidently with players with not so perfect timing.

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..It seems like forum arguments are really important to you. I personally have limited patience for them..

Then you should not start them..

I replied to SmoothOperator, not to you, and you decided to make things personal..

I agree, at my age, i should have left the conversation at that moment..

Now, i am off..

 

[Push pull stroke]

Adjusting to bad meter...only in extreme situations, only as a last resort, only if it would work. It's not the last thing I want to do, it's not even on the list of things I want to do. Hate that. It's my job to stay the course and let the others adjust, no apologies. You don't adjust the metronome during a song!
That said you do what you have to do, but that's last resort territory IMO, adjusting. It's easier to tame down or nudge up an incorrect tempo if necessary but adjusting to meter sticks out like a sore thumb

But there are just some musical situations where you don’t have a choice, like accompanying untrained singers in music they haven’t practiced enough....or ANYBODY, really, if they haven’t practiced enough. LOL


We used to call forcing everyone else back to the beat “being a hero” in percussion ensemble in college. We had one very rigid guy (physically and mentally rigid and righteous lol) who would be a hero. It could be absolute heck trying to get 3 or 4 other people to figure out which way he wanted us to go, tempo-wise, and then all adjust simultaneously. If the music had been easy, it wouldn’t have been a problem, but not much we played was easy, and it was never hard to match “the hero”’s tempo when the music was easy. It when we were struggling with the parts that it would catch us off


When I play at church, sometimes I can force the piano player back to the beat if the music is easy and slow, and I’m just accompanying her. She’s the music director and has her Master’s in Piano, so she can play well, but her time isn’t as good as mine, and she neglects to practice sometimes, too, which doesn’t help.

But if I tried to drag our entire choir back to the beat? WOW. These are untrained musicians, mostly, singing difficult music that is sometimes beyond their ability to learn in time for services. I wouldn’t DARE try to drag them back to the beat.

But I agree, if it’s regular pop/rock/etc., sometimes you are better off dragging everyone back to the beat, since the tempos don’t usually change, and the beat is so steady and predictable.

 

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