Is anybody in power in the music industry….

Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
You misunderstand. Me saying that you're making a complete arse of yourself isn't calling you a name - it's a description of your actions. Calling you an 'utter tit' would be. But I'm not calling you that.

Out of respect for Bernhard, I'm stepping out of this one. Believe what you want to believe but please do so in full knowledge that you're wrong.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
You misunderstand. Me saying that you're making a complete arse of yourself isn't calling you a name - it's a description of your actions. Calling you an 'utter tit' would be. But I'm not calling you that.

Out of respect for Bernhard, I'm stepping out of this one. Believe what you want to believe but please do so in full knowledge that you're wrong.

Oh no, I’m wrong!!! How can I go on, knowing I might be wrong?!?!?!😂
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member
There’s not nearly the same level of practice time or self-discipline involved with making electronic music.
I used to think the same thing. Then I saw a video of a Deadmau5 concert, packed with younglings happily dancing, and one guy in a funny helmet making killer sounds. My first thought was, "He's making some bank. No other musicians needed. Prolly farts around in Ableton or something."

Well, sort of.

Deadmau5-Mau5trap-03web.jpgDeadmau5-Mau5trap-08web.jpgDeadmau5-Mau5trap-10web.jpg

And his "cube" he uses for live performances offers a case study in electronics, innovation and teamwork. He's got a helluva crew working for him. He's definitely not alone in his development of his music and shows. And, he's been at it a very long time and hasn't lost his fanbase (if anything, it's grown 'cuz his music is that good).

deadmau5-cube.jpg
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I used to think the same thing. Then I saw a video of a Deadmau5 concert, packed with younglings happily dancing, and one guy in a funny helmet making killer sounds. My first thought was, "He's making some bank. No other musicians needed. Prolly farts around in Ableton or something."

Well, sort of.

View attachment 122157View attachment 122158View attachment 122159

And his "cube" he uses for live performances offers a case study in electronics, innovation and teamwork. He's got a helluva crew working for him. He's definitely not alone in his development of his music and shows. And, he's been at it a very long time and hasn't lost his fanbase (if anything, it's grown 'cuz his music is that good).

View attachment 122160

And? It’s just not very interesting to me. Check me back when an electronic singer or drummer can interpret with the subtlety of the best human performers. Until then, I’m not interested
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
There are sold out shows with people who are not and have never been on the charts all the time.

If you look around, there's something for everyone.......all the time.

There's maybe too much, but that is one of the main things where we have to accept personal responsibility today to avoid overload.

It would be one of the main things I disagree with my favorite Vinnie about as I don't mind the "gatekeepers" not being in full control anymore. They have found other avenues, but that's a different conversation.

There's always been all sorts of stuff going around on the ground level and now opportunities are more equal. Recording expenses have gone from astronomical to almost nothing. Obviously, good people doing the work still costs money, but there's no comparison. The budgets for the big names aren't the same either, but they seem to get by as long as they don't do anything too stupid.

What I really consider crap are the small town attitudes I see all the time with people who want to keep everything like it always was and judge everything else. I don't listen to the techno or trance things, but I also don't listen to Bach either and it's more or less for the same reasons.

I had a financial setback from issues at work, but if not I would have a pretty nice studio running now learning to do as much as I could myself and only hiring other people when I needed to and it would be great. Wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but it would be mine, without compromise and it would be out there.
 
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GretschedHive

Silver Member
There has never been a great composer who wasn’t also a fairly accomplished performer.
Neither Robert Schumann nor Ralph Vaughan Williams were accomplished performers. Also, depending upon what you mean by "fairly accomplished," Jean Sibelius and Carl Nielsen both leap to mind as great composers who weren't especially accomplished performers.
Did Bowie copy anyone else?
Well...sure. Even if you discount how massively he was influenced by the likes of Lou Reed — about which he was quite open — his took his vocal stylings from Anthony Newley to a startling degree.


 

jimb

Member
Not too busy today so here we go again...haha. Man this is a huge topic with lots of avenues, I'll pick one. Over in the UK there's a Sat evening arts programme on the radio and they have a young musical guest each week. Jeez its hard to listen too...I'll usually switch off as its nearly always some young dude or gal with an acoustic singing like there about to commit Hari Kari...Its so darn miserable sounding with dull melodies, predictable chord changes etc etc. Joni, Dylan, JT and all those other acoustic dudes didnt sound miserable and their chord changes take you places you didn't think possible ie their music is interesting and uplifting.
Why is the Beatles catalogue so darn hard to play, cause they used interesting chord shapes....how come? They had masses of original talent. Sitting there with an acoustic banging out C D G Em does not make for good music.
 

Chris Whitten

Silver Member
There are plenty of innovative, highly skilled young musicians.
They don't get much exposure, and they often don't last long in the industry, because music consumers don't want to pay for innovation and skill.
The Beatles were earning waaaay more than most company directors when they were 25 years old. The band was making more money than their corporate label (EMI) who had huge contracts to supply governments with weapons systems at the time.
The UK Competition watchdog just reported that 1 million streams a month earns artists £12,000 a year. The current average yearly wage in the UK is £24,000. Hardly anyone, least the innovative and independent, are achieving 1 million streams per month. And even if they miraculously did, they'd still be on half pay compared to the average worker!!!
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Neither Robert Schumann nor Ralph Vaughan Williams were accomplished performers. Also, depending upon what you mean by "fairly accomplished," Jean Sibelius and Carl Nielsen both leap to mind as great composers who weren't especially accomplished performers.

Well...sure. Even if you discount how massively he was influenced by the likes of Lou Reed — about which he was quite open — his took his vocal stylings from Anthony Newley to a startling degree.



Some of these electronic composers can’t play much at all on any instrument. I imagine your music history professors would roll their eyes at your egregious, intentional misuse of your music history training. Or did you not get a degree? Man, piss off with this. If you don’t understand my points, then go away. If you understand then, but are arguing for some other reason, then go away. Just go away, thanks
 

Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
Some of these electronic composers can’t play much at all on any instrument. I imagine your music history professors would roll their eyes at your egregious, intentional misuse of your music history training. Or did you not get a degree? Man, piss off with this. If you don’t understand my points, then go away. If you understand then, but are arguing for some other reason, then go away. Just go away, thanks
Out of interest which electronic composers? And why does the method matter over the outcome?
 

Smoke

Silver Member
I really love a good argument - I don't believe that is should be angry or heated. In the end, I may be smarter or I may impart some knowledge. Sadly most arguments become, "I must win, you must lose.", and the whole point of the argument is lost.

Perhaps parts of this argument got lost for a lack of definition(s). What is "electronic music" anyway? If one defines electronic music as "A" and the other defines it as "B", we don't have a valid argument. Might just as well argue apples and mangosteen rather than Macintosh and Cox's Orange Pippin. (I grow both in my yard!).

I looked up "electronic music" in Wikipedia and was surprised. It didn't fit *my* definition - in that case, I couldn't have had a productive argument without a common definition of the subject matter. Maybe we need to agree on the parameters of the argument and start over? As gentlepersons looking for knowledge.

These are my opinions; they are based on my experiences, observations and training, accumulated over 63 years. Guess what?!? Every day I learn something new, so my opinions are always subject to change. In the same vein, many "facts" change as our subject matter experts learn more about our world and how it works. It's all kind of wonderful.

In my opinion! 😉
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member
I looked up "electronic music" in Wikipedia and was surprised. It didn't fit *my* definition - in that case, I couldn't have had a productive argument without a common definition of the subject matter. Maybe we need to agree on the parameters of the argument and start over? As gentlepersons looking for knowledge.
I have always categorized electronic music as computer-generated audio. I did not categorize keyboard synthesizers into that category 'cuz human interaction with the keyboard is/can be spontaneous. I am wrong. The piano keyboard is just another shape of button in a specific arrangement.

A few issues ago, Tape Op interviewed Suzanne Ciani and my eyes were opened to a huge realm I never knew existed, centered around one instrument: the Buchla.

 

Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
If you want to take it back further, there's the split in 20th Century Western Music between 'Musique Concrète' (generally in France) and 'Elektronische Musik' (generally in Germany) that dates to the early 1950s. The latter of which uses sounds that are solely created by electronic means, e.g. some form of oscillator and circuitry. 'Concrète' refers to what we would usually call 'sampling' now but generally not sampling musical works - instead sampling objects and environmental sounds (e.g. Xenakis 'Concrète PH' is a recording of a burning lump of coal).

Most of what you'll hear now in the charts is a combination of instrumental music, concrète and electronic.

There are more modern definitions of course but that's the starting point. There's electronic music before this of course with instruments like the theremin and Ondes Martenot that are purely electronic but the definitions come along a bit later.
 

doggyd69b

Silver Member
Sir, you are the man around here, Macca etc etc but I have to disagree. However if that other thread is anything to go by this is one hell of a hard sell.
So lets pick a tune....."How much is that doggy in the window" Yep top draw cheese and I hated it too when I first heard it, still do, it fits a Genre but more importantly is very, very well written, is extremely melodic and hugely musicial and this is my gripe with todays music its all trying to be the same thing, trying to be cool if you will with little understanding of melody and interest. Ed Sheeran?, Adele? It's all dull as dishwater, little melody very little musical shape, the works. So until younger peeps get this then Im more than happy to stick with Dylan, Bowie, Joni and the rest of those old favs from the past.
Little known fact. Berry Gordy had a "Quality Control" meeting once a week with all his employees to pick one tune to release, and it didn't matter who the artist was, which ever one got the votes got the release. Maybe thats whats really missing today.
My problem with music that was/is on the radio is that I was told what to like, and since I am not a sheep like a lot of others I actually refuse to like anything unless I really do Iike it spontaneously (not because radio says I should) People like Adele (because they are told to like her) yes she can sing but if you listen to garbage such as "rumor has it" in which she repeats that over and over, you would instantly hate the complete lack of creativity and the absolutely catered to ADD audience lyrics. who cares if she can actually sing if the music is shit?
Don't get me started with Ed Sheeran, same formulaic compositions also catered to simpletons. As it was said before, only the 10% on top get any support from the music industry, the rest just have to do it on their own which is why all this garbage passes as music while good music gets ignored. Greed wins once again.
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member
formulaic compositions
Remember the tune Old Town Road by L'il Nas X? He's now making songs as short as possible, targeting the 90-second limit. Why? So there will be more streams/downloads of the music. A song that's 90 seconds gets twice the revenue of a 3-minute song. The guy's a genius. And I'm sure the music streaming companies will move the goal posts so they don't get stuck with higher payouts.
 
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