Impact Isolating Riser - My New Design - Plans and Guide

Greetings all.

My name is Brian Jackson and this is my first post here, so wanted to introduce myself. I recently purchased a new e-kit for use in the studio and immediately discovered an issue with downstairs neighbors. Kick pedal impact. Unfortunately it's a worst-case-scenario because the lower neighbors are my soon to be in-laws, and the studio is directly above their bedroom.

I'd done a good bit of research on the subject (I'm an architectural engineer by trade), but wasn't really thrilled with the popular DIY solutions that were out there. Simply reducing impact noise wasn't good enough, it had to be totally eliminated. So I put my engineering skills to work on the problem.

What I ended up with works so well I thought I'd start out by making a contribution to the forum in the form of freely-downloadable plans and builders guide, which I will attempt to attach to this post. It's a DIY isolating platform that can be built in a day for under $100 from readily available materials without any specialized tools.

Though it was primarily designed for e-kits, the dimensions can increase to accommodate larger kits if impact noise is a problem. Might be overkill in some situations, but if you need a total solution, it's worth considering. FYI, the hardwood floor under the platform didn't even register when measuring with a sensitive seismograph at hard playing force.

I look forward to meeting and learning from some of you here.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

(Oops... apparently the forum will not accept either file because they're slightly over 488kb. I will try to link externally.)
 

GruntersDad

Honorary Lifetime CEO
Staff member
The plans look fantastic and I assume you have this built since you mention test numbers, but it must be heavy. It's certainly not mobile or portable, by the looks of the material. Would it have been lighter if you had used some synthetic 5/4 decking material rather than the standard 2 x 4's?
 
The plans look fantastic and I assume you have this built since you mention test numbers, but it must be heavy. It's certainly not mobile or portable, by the looks of the material. Would it have been lighter if you had used some synthetic 5/4 decking material rather than the standard 2 x 4's?

Thank you, Gruntersdad.

Yes, it's heavy, but built for the studio room so portability isn't a criteria since I wouldn't have this problem elsewhere. Loaded it's around 400 lbs. The mass was required to counter much of the impact, with the wheel barrow inner tubes serving to dampen residual force. As hard as we tried to produce any shock noise in the room below, we couldn't. It's a cheap, simple method if you need 100% isolation. It could have been built lighter with thinner boards, but that would have increased the cost significantly. I wanted to build this for under 100 bucks.
 

enos

Member
Brian,

this looks great!
I have had 3 project/home studios so far (mostly for recording drums for people who don't want to hire "big" studios and still have me on their tracks:)) and I have to say that this is by far the best "budget" solution I have seen so far!

THANKS for sharing!!


Best,
Enos
 
Brian,

this looks great!
I have had 3 project/home studios so far (mostly for recording drums for people who don't want to hire "big" studios and still have me on their tracks:)) and I have to say that this is by far the best "budget" solution I have seen so far!

THANKS for sharing!!


Best,
Enos

Thank you, Enos.

Budget was definitely a big consideration since studios tend to be money-pits by default. Also wanted a set-it-and-forget-it design instead of one that could be tweaked endlessly. Rather be making music :)

Cheers,
Brian Jackson
 

TWerner

Senior Member
Just curious. How often do you have to pump up the inner tubes. I was considering something similar but with tennis balls or some sort of foam.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
It looks awesome. My only concern is the overall height. My studio has only an 8 foot ceiling and giving up a foot of height is killer.

But the plans themselves look very well thought out and I have no doubt that it works as intended.
 

Holden

Member
Wow! Plans and guide are clear and concise, better than a bunch of plans you pay for from a book. You make it look easy to build. :)
 

TWerner

Senior Member
I agree this looks like a great design. In our next house (2 months away), I am putting a music room/recording area in a sealed attic which is partially over the master bedroom. Because of the location, I'll be putting an isolation platform under the drum set, and this looks fantastic. I just don't know if I'll have to pump up the tubes every few weeks, or if it will go months between refills. So I'm debating between the inner tubes and the tennis ball option. Old trailer tires were also a thought with this design.

I was hoping Brian would see this and give us some follow up on how well it's holding up.
 
Hi all. Just saw the discussion and thought I'd chime in to answer your questions. Regarding inner tube deflation, I've never had to pump them up in the time since the prototype was built. I've monitored them periodically and it just hasn't been an issue with the tubes I've spec'd in the guide. Overall it really has performed better than expected.

As for height, you could probably still get 90% of the isolation with one of the upper blocks removed from each pedestal to bring it 2" lower. Just be aware that the more mass you remove the less effective it will be. With neighbors living downstairs I had to go full-Binford (tm).

Thank you all for the nice compliments on the plans. If they help anyone pursue their passion, it was effort well spent.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

Edit: Correction... to shorten height, remove a LOWER block, not an upper block, as to avoid the chance of chafing the tube against the trusses over time.
 
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4-Month Review

Being that the plans are dated 2/10/15 and it's seen 4 months of use, I thought it time to offer critical feedback of the design. Since I'm not selling anything the review can be honest.

As for performance, 100% impact sound deadening. The simple split-mass supports and under-inflated innertube design has proven its worth even at very hard volumes at midnight directly over old peoples' bedroom. No disrespect to old people, but it sure is nice when we can remain friends. I'm kinda old too so it's ok.

No problems to report on de-inflation of innertubes. I periodically check and they haven't lost air. That surprised me since I expected they'd have to be pumped up every once in a while. Not a puff. Granted there's not much load on them when you divide a kit by 4. It's different when you spike a load on a single tire at a shock point. Kicking a groove and driving over rocky terrain are different things. So I'm OK with giving my blessing to these innertubes.

If I could change anything, it would be the size of the finished platform. A couple inches deeper would give me a little more comfort. Though I made the math easy on the plans to increase the size, I wish mine were that extra 4" wider. Space restrictions dictated the original design and it does work quite well. But I could have squeezed in that last 4" which would have made positioning a little more flexible.

The slatted design of the platform surface was also a good design choice instead of plywood since it doesn't create a continuous membrane surface like a speaker cone, or a plosive wave aimed at the floor down.

Overall I'd rate this about an 8.5. It met its goal of an absolute isolation solution that could be made for $100 out of stuff from your nearest home improvement store.

From the emails, let me iterate that there's nothing wrong with the tennis ball riser approach. In fact I was going to build one myself. It was only after learning of its deficiencies in certain aspects it was decided to re-think our approach. And I must admit the Jackson Pad is much simpler and more effective in critical applications. Raw materials are heavier though so you'll have to weigh each situation out for yourself.

I am available on this forum for engineering questions, and the hallmark of a good engineer (and a good skeptic) is the willingness to be taught. So I'm always interested in better ways. Suggestions are always welcome.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson
 

Tiger Koehn

New member
Greetings all.

My name is Brian Jackson and this is my first post here, so wanted to introduce myself. I recently purchased a new e-kit for use in the studio and immediately discovered an issue with downstairs neighbors. Kick pedal impact. Unfortunately it's a worst-case-scenario because the lower neighbors are my soon to be in-laws, and the studio is directly above their bedroom.

I'd done a good bit of research on the subject (I'm an architectural engineer by trade), but wasn't really thrilled with the popular DIY solutions that were out there. Simply reducing impact noise wasn't good enough, it had to be totally eliminated. So I put my engineering skills to work on the problem.

What I ended up with works so well I thought I'd start out by making a contribution to the forum in the form of freely-downloadable plans and builders guide, which I will attempt to attach to this post. It's a DIY isolating platform that can be built in a day for under $100 from readily available materials without any specialized tools.

Though it was primarily designed for e-kits, the dimensions can increase to accommodate larger kits if impact noise is a problem. Might be overkill in some situations, but if you need a total solution, it's worth considering. FYI, the hardwood floor under the platform didn't even register when measuring with a sensitive seismograph at hard playing force.

I look forward to meeting and learning from some of you here.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

(Oops... apparently the forum will not accept either file because they're slightly over 488kb. I will try to link externally.)


Hello Brain, thank you for taking the time to create and offer your plans. This is extremely generous of you.

I have a couple questions If you don’t mind.

1) Can you provide me with the exact manufacturer of the wheel barrel tires you used, exactly the type and model # . There are many different types and even the one with the same model #’s from different companies aren’t the same.
2) How much air did you use to inflate the tires?
I’m getting conflicting articles on line . Some say to fill them half way, some say 3/4’s .

Why I’m asking here is that I need to replacate the exact conditions so I will get zero bass frequency vibration

I made the tennis ball riser . The tennis ball loose their functionality after a short while and the platforms become giant frequency amplifiers . They do not last and I’ve changed tennis balls 3 times in a year .

I’m a professional and have to practice everyday and recorded as well . Problem with my A.I.R loft in NYC is there is no insulation under my floor and the loft below my recording studio is just exposed joists and cross beams.

I need to make this solution work or the alternative is either industrial decoupling isolators used for industrial machinery and recording facilities or the final alternative is a floated isolated room . Thats 30K the inexpensive side

Please let me know . Contact me directly at tigerkain@gmail.com

thank you for your time

Tiger K
 

beatdat

Senior Member
Contact me directly at tigerkain@gmail.com


I'm not sure how you found this five year old thread, but I'm glad you did. Please let us know if the OP gets back to you.


I'd like to know if this platform stops impact vibrations and sound from travelling upstairs. I'm on the lower level of a two story with two bedrooms directly above me, and I can't practice on the pads once the family goes to sleep.

Anyone know of this design? Is it as good as it looks?
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Anyone know of this design? Is it as good as it looks?
I have no direct experience of this design, but appraising it from my own design engineering perspective, it makes a lot of sense to me. Any designs I've seen in the past have failed to recognise the important contribution of mass, as well as membrane affect. This seems to address both of those areas well, and I'm sure could be further optimised without the modest material constraints.
 

beatdat

Senior Member
I have no direct experience of this design, but appraising it from my own design engineering perspective, it makes a lot of sense to me. Any designs I've seen in the past have failed to recognise the important contribution of mass, as well as membrane affect. This seems to address both of those areas well, and I'm sure could be further optimised without the modest material constraints.


I don't have any engineering knowledge, just first year physics at university. Still, the membrane thing intuitively made sense to me. Nice to see that you somewhat confirmed my intuition.

But, what do you mean by "modest material constraints"?

And, I didn't see any mention of how the slats are fastened to the stud trusses. I'm assuming carpentry nails, no? Maybe screws? Washers and bolts?
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
Just read through the documentation, and the Word doc (notably the BOM on page 16) answers some of these questions...

1) Can you provide me with the exact manufacturer of the wheel barrel tires you used, exactly the type and model # . There are many different types and even the one with the same model #’s from different companies aren’t the same.

2) How much air did you use to inflate the tires?
I’m getting conflicting articles on line . Some say to fill them half way, some say 3/4’s .
Please Note: These are Inner Tubes rather than Tires.
1) Page 16: Type is 4.80 X 4.00-8 for 8” rim, puncture self-sealing @ $9.97 ea. - 4 required = $39.88. Exact Manufacturer and Model aren't listed, but they were purchased at Lowes.
Make: Tire Aid
Model: 490-328-L013 (Lowes Item # 378880)
Note: Current price is $10.98ea (only +$1 in 5yrs)

2) Page 13: About 5 PSI

And, I didn't see any mention of how the slats are fastened to the stud trusses. I'm assuming carpentry nails, no? Maybe screws? Washers and bolts?
Pages 6 & 16: 2-1/2" or 3" wood deck screws, 1-lb box @ $3.99 ea. - 2 boxes required (112 screws total) = $7.98 (Home Depot or Lowes)

EDIT: Looked up the inner tubes on Lowe’s and there’s only one make & model for this size... added above...
 
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beatdat

Senior Member
Pages 6 & 16: 2-1/2" or 3" wood deck screws, 1-lb box @ $3.99 ea. - 2 boxes required (112 screws total) = $7.98 (Home Depot or Lowes)


D'oh, I didn't read the Word doc, I only looked at the pretty pictures. Thanks for the help... again.
 

ineedaclutch

Platinum Member
Just that you could expect small incremental improvements through material & construction changes if the $100 budget was exceeded considerably.
Every project ever.
They always say, "no".
They always say, "no".
 
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