I'm confused by Ludwig's snare lineup

wildbill

Platinum Member
Not sure if it's just the pictures, but there is a slight bluish tint to the lighter areas, especially on the bass drum..
Most other ones I've seen have a more bone/tan hue.
The black is definitely black though, where on the blue oyster the black looks a bit more grayish.
I'd be real happy with the wrap on your kit. Looks like a 20/12/14? I thought you liked bigger sizes.

About the snare - although I've never had one, I'd like to get a Black Beauty, so that's where my vote goes.
But they don't make a 13, and that's what I play now. There's the Black Magic, but I'd want a US made snare.
I can wait till they come to their senses though. :LOL:
 
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IBitePrettyHard

Senior Member
Anybody..........does the finish on the Black Beauty suffer from the same pitting as the chrome on the Supra?
Black Beauties and brass drums in general do not have pitting issues. Supras are more prone to pitting because apparently binding chrome to aluminum doesn't work quite as well.

I wouldn't let that deter you from a Supra though. If you take care of it and wipe it down once a year, and keep it out of New Orleans weather, it'll still look awesome in 20 years. My Supra is 12 years old and still looks practically new with zero pitting.

But hey, you can't go wrong with a BB either! They're very similar. In my opinion, the BB is slightly darker with a little less high-end crack. The Supra has slightly more 'snap' to it, which is why I prefer it over the BB. It's soo negligible though, I'd still be super happy with a BB.
 

Darth Vater

Senior Member
Not sure if it's just the pictures, but there is a slight bluish tint to the lighter areas, especially on the bass drum..
Most other ones I've seen have a more bone/tan hue.
The black is definitely black though, where on the blue oyster the black looks a bit more grayish.
I'd be real happy with the wrap on your kit.

About the snare - although I've never had one, I'd like to get a Black Beauty, so that's where my vote goes.
But they don't make a 13, and that's what I play now. There's the Black Magic, but I'd want a US made snare.
I can wait till they come to their senses though. :LOL:
Thanks man, it might be the light as it was right under a florescent light row. As for the Luddy snares, I think I'm more confused now than at the start. LOL They all sound good but they're all pretty pricey too. I played a Supra for many years in the 70's and 80's. I liked it but hated the way it pitted. That thing went thru hell though.

Black Beauties and brass drums in general do not have pitting issues. Supras are more prone to pitting because apparently binding chrome to aluminum doesn't work quite as well.

I wouldn't let that deter you from a Supra though. If you take care of it and wipe it down once a year, and keep it out of New Orleans weather, it'll still look awesome in 20 years. My Supra is 12 years old and still looks practically new with zero pitting.

But hey, you can't go wrong with a BB either! They're very similar. In my opinion, the BB is slightly darker with a little less high-end crack. The Supra has slightly more 'snap' to it, which is why I prefer it over the BB. It's soo negligible though, I'd still be super happy with a BB.
Listening to some videos now. Those Copperphonics are pretty nice. I tend to like a dry snare sound. I'm probably going to wait until I get my 12x8 tom this week before I move on a snare. I'm in no rush.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Would a 5x 14 BB have enough punch in your opinion?
First, permit me to congratulate you on your reception of this excellent kit. If I weren't playing Pearl, Classic Maples would be my most probable destination. They're sensational drums in every facet. I'm confident you'll be comprehensively pleased.

My response to your above question is affirmative. A 5" depth can always pack plenty of punch. For a reason that remains enigmatic, the consensus that's arisen in recent years holds that any measurement under 6.5" is of a limited tuning range and lacks fullness of tone. That allegation is emphatically absurd. A 5" isn't a piccolo; it's a standard shell. It was the norm for years and years. And I would argue that a 5", contrary to intuition, performs infinitely better than deeper shells at lower tunings (often suited to rock). Its compactness promotes a succinct clarity that can get muddled as shell depth expands.

Go against the grain, Darth. Get a 5". You have nothing to fear but satisfaction.
 

Darth Vater

Senior Member
First, permit me to congratulate you on your reception of this excellent kit. If I weren't playing Pearl, Classic Maples would be my most probable destination. They're sensational drums in every facet. I'm confident you'll be comprehensively pleased.

My response to your above question is affirmative. A 5" depth can always pack plenty of punch. For a reason that remains enigmatic, the consensus that's arisen in recent years holds that any measurement under 6.5" is of a limited tuning range and lacks fullness of tone. That allegation is emphatically absurd to me. A 5" isn't a piccolo; it's a standard shell. It was the norm for years and years. And I would argue that a 5", contrary to intuition, works infinitely better than deeper shells at lower tunings (often suited to rock). Its compactness promotes a succinct clarity that can get muddled as shell depth expands.

Go against the grain, Darth. Get a 5". You have nothing to fear but satisfaction.

Good talk! Actually I'm leery of 6.5 drums. I think 5.5 or 6 is the optimal size in the 14" range. My first "good" snare in 1970 was a 14x5 supra and this kit is kind of bringing me full circle as my first good kit was Hollywood Ludwig in what will be the exact same sizes as I'm putting together here. Shells are a little different, probably better now. I had an aluminum 14x5 Tama LAL 145 a few years back that was an absolute killer! I wish I would have kept it. I kind of like having a med/high tuned, cracking snare with lower tunings on toms. I'll keep your advice in mind and thanks for the nice comments on the kit. I think it will be a blast!
 

graysonator

Well-known member
First, permit me to congratulate you on your reception of this excellent kit. If I weren't playing Pearl, Classic Maples would be my most probable destination. They're sensational drums in every facet. I'm confident you'll be comprehensively pleased.

My response to your above question is affirmative. A 5" depth can always pack plenty of punch. For a reason that remains enigmatic, the consensus that's arisen in recent years holds that any measurement under 6.5" is of a limited tuning range and lacks fullness of tone. That allegation is emphatically absurd. A 5" isn't a piccolo; it's a standard shell. It was the norm for years and years. And I would argue that a 5", contrary to intuition, performs infinitely better than deeper shells at lower tunings (often suited to rock). Its compactness promotes a succinct clarity that can get muddled as shell depth expands.

Go against the grain, Darth. Get a 5". You have nothing to fear but satisfaction.
I have a 13x5” custom stave shell bubinga that my grandfather and I built together a few months ago.. and let me tell you it sounds WAY bigger than it actually is. A 5” is a go to size for good reason! Although I probably need a 14x5”, don’t have one of those yet.
 

ToneT

Well-known member
Plenty of NY studios used a Supraphonic 5x14 in the 60s thru the 80s for the fat sound.
Even Gadd used one.
More punch? Try lowering the bottom a bit and / or use a 2-ply batter.
5x14 snares are just super-versatile. The Ludwig is still a magic drum.
 
Plenty of NY studios used a Supraphonic 5x14 in the 60s thru the 80s for the fat sound.
Even Gadd used one.
More punch? Try lowering the bottom a bit and / or use a 2-ply batter.
5x14 snares are just super-versatile. The Ludwig is still a magic drum.
Mr. Supraman5x14 agrees whole heartedly!?
 

basset52

Senior Member
Just got the kit delivered. Been downstairs unboxing. The QC on the toms is fabulous. Really happy. haven't opened the kick box yet. I'll get some photos up once I do.

Yeah, those Copperphonics are kind of pricey! Not a big deal but if they lean toward woody, I'll probably let my wood snares handle that end.


Excellent descriptions and 4-1-1. I think I'll have a scotch tonite and go through some youtube videos Probably going to be between a BB and Supra but I had a Supra for like 30 years. Maybe it's time for something different. Any takes on the bronze Supra?
I have had a 14 x6.5 BB and have a 14 x 6.5 COA Supra ( which is terrific IMV), I also have an 80's 14 x 6.5 Bronze Supra - it's my go to snare. Just love it.
 

Darth Vater

Senior Member
Not sure if it's just the pictures, but there is a slight bluish tint to the lighter areas, especially on the bass drum..
Most other ones I've seen have a more bone/tan hue.
The black is definitely black though, where on the blue oyster the black looks a bit more grayish.
I'd be real happy with the wrap on your kit. Looks like a 20/12/14? I thought you liked bigger sizes.

About the snare - although I've never had one, I'd like to get a Black Beauty, so that's where my vote goes.
But they don't make a 13, and that's what I play now. There's the Black Magic, but I'd want a US made snare.
I can wait till they come to their senses though. :LOL:

Sizes are 22x14, 13x9, 16x16, and I have a 12x8 add on coming too. That's my idea of a bop kit. :cool:
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
My response to your above question is affirmative. A 5" depth can always pack plenty of punch. For a reason that remains enigmatic, the consensus that's arisen in recent years holds that any measurement under 6.5" is of a limited tuning range and lacks fullness of tone. That allegation is emphatically absurd. A 5" isn't a piccolo; it's a standard shell. It was the norm for years and years. And I would argue that a 5", contrary to intuition, performs infinitely better than deeper shells at lower tunings (often suited to rock). Its compactness promotes a succinct clarity that can get muddled as shell depth expands.

Go against the grain, Darth. Get a 5". You have nothing to fear but satisfaction.
Counter-intuitively, I prefer a shallower shell for a low tuning and a deeper shell for a high tuning. Again, backwards.

I get along better with a 6.5 overall. I like hearing others play the the 5"shell...a lot...but me I'd rather play a 6.5
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Counter-intuitively, I prefer a shallower shell for a low tuning and a deeper shell for a high tuning. Again, backwards.

I get along better with a 6.5 overall. I like hearing others play the the 5"shell...a lot...but me I'd rather play a 6.5
That's perfectly logical to me, Larry. A cranked snare can be short on body, so a 6.5" provides some measure of compensation in that range. On the contrary, a 6.5" can lose identity at low tunings, whereas a 5" is more apt to stay clean and focused, presuming it's tuned well. As always, though, it depends on the snare in question.

When Tama released Kenny Aronoff's signature snare a while back, Kenny did a promo piece for Sweetwater. There he explains that he uses a 5" depth ninety-nine percent of the time (both live and in the studio), but when he wants an ultra-low, fat sound, he goes even shallower, dropping to a 4" depth with a 15" diameter. That strategy makes sense too. The larger diameter creates a lower tonal voice, while the compact depth keeps the output nice and tidy.

Check the out the below video. It's just a few minutes minutes long.

 
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