Hey just gotta say

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GretschedHive

Silver Member
I'm well aware that people at both ends of the spectrum can be intolerant and rude
Very much so.


It sounds to me like you are attributing some kind of guilt or unflattering characterization to a group of people and that we should take them less seriously as a result.
No, see, this is where we're using the same words but meaning and hearing totally different things. My point, poorly (if at all) made was that someone says something which he thinks is totally innocuous, the kind of thing he and his friend have been saying for decades, without realizing how it might sound to others. And when called on it, because he's a good guy (seriously) and he didn't mean it That Way At All, he feels attacked.

[I had roughly another 1000 words here that I cut 'cuz who has time for all that?]

I think you're a good person and I enjoy reading your posts. That won't change.
And I do and always have thought the exact same thing about you. You were one of the first members I remember noticing, and I've always really liked your posts. And I've been bummed that you and I have been at odds over non-drumming-related things the past few weeks.

I suspect most would hate accidentally making someone on here feel bad. And I never want to make things tense or weird by saying something--honest to pete, I really don't--and so the overwhelming majority of the times, I don't say anything. But sometimes I feel like I have to speak up, so the other people who might have been put off by that casual comment don't feel an unwelcome outsider.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
I must admit that over the last few weeks, I've been considering a permanent vacation from this forum due to the comments made here - particularly the casual sexism that seems to permeate in some threads. I'm sure that a lot of people would be happy to see the back of me.

Quite simply, if you don't think that we should be careful with the way that we communicate about protected characteristics, then you're part of the problem.
 
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criz p. critter

Silver Member
I must admit that over the last few weeks, I've been considering a permanent vacation from this forum due to the comments made here - particularly the casual sexism that seems to permeate in some threads. I'm sure that a lot of people would be happy to see the back of me.
Please don’t! Even if it’s uncomfortable, or takes too much time, or if it seems like a losing battle, it’s more important than ever to stand your ground and resist when some people casually spread misinformation and unfacts. I admit it’s a bit of a stretch when I respond to always stay neutral and try not to tread on any toes. I just stick to the facts as I see them, and hope that I’m heard. And don’t forget to stay, to be, cool!
 
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criz p. critter

Silver Member
Adding to my post, above: I know you've been around here a long effing time, MFB, and if I remember right, you've taken time off before. Of course, if that's what you need to do, do it. But hopefully come back once your batteries are recharged.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I have found it necessary to substantially edit many posts in this thread, mostly (but not exclusively) on the basis of political / religious affiliation discussion. Although such points have been raised in this thread with due courtesy, it’s inevitable that consideration will not prevail, hence why such discussion is not allowed here.

Call it censorship if you wish, but them’s the rules.

On a general note, this is an international forum, & whilst certain political affiliations & associated titles (either derogatory or otherwise), might be well recognised in the US, they have little relatable parallel elsewhere.
 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
The forum is only as good as the people who make it -so the onus of civility falls on all of us. Usually the weak links get weeded out from repeated offenses. I can be as big an arse as anyone but I want to be known for gentleness and civility before I die. So there is still time RoFl
 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
Welcome-to-the-jungle-we-got-fun-and-games-we-got-everything-you-want-honey-we-know-the-names-we-are-the-people-that-can-find-whatever-you-may-need. I think says it best lol
 

criz p. critter

Silver Member
I have found it necessary to substantially edit many posts in this thread, mostly (but not exclusively) on the basis of political / religious affiliation discussion. Although such points have been raised in this thread with due courtesy, it’s inevitable that consideration will not prevail, hence why such discussion is not allowed here.

Call it censorship if you wish, but them’s the rules.

On a general note, this is an international forum, & whilst certain political affiliations & associated titles (either derogatory or otherwise), might be well recognised in the US, they have little relatable parallel elsewhere.
Well, ok. I guess.
 

TMe

Senior Member
Quite simply, if you don't think that we should be careful with the way that we communicate about protected characteristics, then you're part of the problem.
Consider where it's coming from. For example, when my elderly aunt posted the comment that "All lives matter" a couple of years ago, she was being sincere, and completely unaware of how why that might be an inappropriate response. When my tinfoil-hat wearing cousin chimed in with the same comment and a Pepe the Frog meme, it meant something completely different.

Same goes for casual sexism. Some people are just a little behind the curve, and should be cut a little slack. None of us are ever completely up to speed with everything. And a bit of off-colour humour should always be indulged, unless it's clearly malicious.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
None of us are ever completely up to speed with everything. And a bit of off-colour humour should always be indulged, unless it's clearly malicious.
Agreed. I’m so not a PC person (as many of you who have met me will attest), but unlike face to face, the internet is a world devoid of context, specifically the ability to work out the place where someone else is coming from.

In my mod capacity, I’m here to uphold the rules of the forum. They’re there for good reason. Sure, sometimes the baby gets thrown out with the bath water, but that’s a price we all pay to maintain a sensible degree of decorum & focus on this forum.

Bottom line, there’s a ton of places to discuss topical stuff, but there’s only one place to discuss drum stuff 😉
 

GretschedHive

Silver Member
Consider where it's coming from. For example, when my elderly aunt posted the comment that "All lives matter" a couple of years ago, she was being sincere, and completely unaware of how why that might be an inappropriate response. When my tinfoil-hat wearing cousin chimed in with the same comment and a Pepe the Frog meme, it meant something completely different.

Same goes for casual sexism. Some people are just a little behind the curve, and should be cut a little slack. None of us are ever completely up to speed with everything. And a bit of off-colour humour should always be indulged, unless it's clearly malicious.
I think I agree with all that, but to my mind it simply raises further questions and, if anything, justifies these kinds of debates and discussions.
So, the situation with your aunt as opposed to your cousin: you understood the context and where they were coming from and reacted accordingly.

But someone on here--unless you've met them and/or they're one of the relatively few members who use their full real name, how can you know what the context is? Are they a kindly grandparent who would be aghast at having said something uncooth? Are they a teenager who enjoys making strangers irate and is extremely good at it? Most likely they're somewhere in the middle, but it's not impossible they're one or the other, and regardless, it's hard to know for sure.

But more important, to my way of thinking, is barring already possessing that information, what do you do?
Do you allow the casual sexism to simply stand, because you don't know the background of the person in question?
Do you gently suggest that their statement was uncool?
What if they react very poorly to that, believing there was nothing wrong with saying Group X is A Certain Way, because hey, we all know how They are, right?

Look, I get that these are all judgment calls. I really do. Back in the day, I moderated an email list with several thousand members, and understand there are frequently no good answers. And I love this place and don't like it when things go awry. And bringing up issues can make things go a bit haywire! But so can not bringing them up.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry" - Administrator
Staff member
All the mods have different styles. I look at the intent of the person in question. If there was no ill intent, but the person maybe could have chosen different words, then I cut slack. Maybe discuss with them privately if necessary. But if the intent is bad and the words were offensive, then definitely not.

I for one will not get caught up in being too PC. I don't like it and won't make anyone do it. I step in when people attack others or get too political, or there is bad intent. I am not responsible for the words you guys use, only on the effect it has on the forum and it's members. Keep your intent positive and unless the words are just over the top offensive or politically charged...I won't step in.
 

Yamaha Rider

Gold Member
I must admit that over the last few weeks, I've been considering a permanent vacation from this forum due to the comments made here - particularly the casual sexism that seems to permeate in some threads. I'm sure that a lot of people would be happy to see the back of me.

Quite simply, if you don't think that we should be careful with the way that we communicate about protected characteristics, then you're part of the problem.
Your casual use of an, I would suggest,
highly politicised, Marxist-derived phrase like 'protected characteristics' as if it were universally accepted is more provocative than you are aware of - however sincerely your belief is held.
I am not saying this because I'd "like to see the back of you" - but because 'sensitivity' cuts both ways.
I have some huge concerns about the political direction of society, try and keep my mouth shut here - but find it hard to resist when provoked - so please help me out and leave the politics for another forum?
 
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Jeremy Crockett

Well-known Member
..."All lives matter" a couple of years ago, she was being sincere, and completely unaware of how why that might be an inappropriate response. When my tinfoil-hat wearing cousin chimed in with the same comment and a Pepe the Frog meme, it meant something completely different.

...
Just because your cousin was trolling, it doesn't invalidate your Aunt's sentiment. The weaponization of mere language and the attribution of said language to "evil motives" is an enormous part of the problem in all online (and off) discourse.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
The forum is only as good as the people who make it -so the onus of civility falls on all of us. Usually the weak links get weeded out from repeated offenses. I can be as big an arse as anyone but I want to be known for gentleness and civility before I die. So there is still time RoFl

this is true about ANY and ALL groups, regardless of "gathering space".

Sadly, in many groups, the weak links don't get weeded out....rather... they get a bigger bullhorn

thankfully here, the moderators take the dirty task of yanking that bullhorn when necessary
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
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