Help with stick control again

(Edit: I missed parts of the discussion..)

Do you feel comfortable playing all three exercises as single strokes (so you leave the buzz / double out)?
At 0:20 this drummer plays four even notes per beat (the 8ths), then five, then six. Those are the three main rhythms in the exercises. It might help to reduce the exercise to singles first and then put the doubles back in there.
 
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Sebenza

Member
I am unable to play these doubles in the context, my hands are not precise enough to do it yet, perhaps the reason why the strokes sounded like buzzes in the first video.. I think it's easier to play buzzes then fast doubles.
I took a look through your vimeo videos and it seems to me you're relying primarily on bouncing the sticks to produce a double stroke roll. As in playing one stroke and then accepting a second stroke bouncing...resulting in the second stroke always being lower volume than the first. It's counterintuitive perhaps, but that's not the way a smooth double stroke roll is played.

Watch this video and focus on the two note stroke right at the start of the vid, you can ignore the rest, the first movement shown is what's important! That two note stroke alternated between left and right is how you produce a smooth double stroke roll. The finesse to play it soft or hard is developed afterwards.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Isn't it 10 doubles in 2 beats (not 1 beat)?

the rhythmic skeleton of the roll in A and B is a quintuplet, hence the switch to left hand lead in the 2nd measure; the roll in C releases on the last partial of the quintuplet skeleton (ignore the wrtwrtj...it is just babble that I have to put in the template to get it to finish)

written with the skeletal idea in the first line, the written idea in the second line 9and the played version for A) , and the played idea in the 3rd line of each example

stone - Score.jpg


hope this helps...I don't know how to post videos, or I would do videos of me playing the different ideas...
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
(Edit: I missed parts of the discussion..)

Do you feel comfortable playing all three exercises as single strokes (so you leave the buzz / double out)?
At 0:20 this drummer plays four even notes per beat (the 8ths), then five, then six. Those are the three main rhythms in the exercises. It might help to reduce the exercise to singles first and then put the doubles back in there.
Looks like a super good exercise, thanks for sharing it.

I took a look through your vimeo videos and it seems to me you're relying primarily on bouncing the sticks to produce a double stroke roll. As in playing one stroke and then accepting a second stroke bouncing...resulting in the second stroke always being lower volume than the first. It's counterintuitive perhaps, but that's not the way a smooth double stroke roll is played.

Watch this video and focus on the two note stroke right at the start of the vid, you can ignore the rest, the first movement shown is what's important! That two note stroke alternated between left and right is how you produce a smooth double stroke roll. The finesse to play it soft or hard is developed afterwards.
I see, it would be good for me to use that technique instead of what I currently do at least with the right hand at least.. Scary stuff
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
the rhythmic skeleton of the roll in A and B is a quintuplet, hence the switch to left hand lead in the 2nd measure; the roll in C releases on the last partial of the quintuplet skeleton (ignore the wrtwrtj...it is just babble that I have to put in the template to get it to finish)

written with the skeletal idea in the first line, the written idea in the second line 9and the played version for A) , and the played idea in the 3rd line of each example

View attachment 104942


hope this helps...I don't know how to post videos, or I would do videos of me playing the different ideas...
Thanks for the sheet it's very useful.

For the example A, the #3 in your sheet, they talk about a 11 stroke roll in Stick Constrol.

Does it mean that I need to tap the first note coming after the 10 strokes RRLLRRLLRR, the L? Then the release would be at the 11th stroke?
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Thanks for the sheet it's very useful.

For the example A, the #3 in your sheet, they talk about a 11 stroke roll in Stick Constrol.

Does it mean that I need to tap the first note coming after the 10 strokes RRLLRRLLRR, the L? Then the release would be at the 11th stroke?

yep, that is exactly right
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
ok thank..

I will try to do it again eventually as well as improving my sticks with the open closed for either hands..

But I am investing energy in supporting my mood about this, preventing it to slip into negativity.
 

Sebenza

Member
ok thank..

I will try to do it again eventually as well as improving my sticks with the open closed for either hands..

But I am investing energy in supporting my mood about this, preventing it to slip into negativity.
Sorry Auspicious, I didnt mean to discourage you. All I can say is keep at it...you seem disciplined enough. And it will "click" at some point...things will fall into place and you'll be like "Ah, so that's it..."
 
Maybe you'll get something useful out of this video. Especially the exercise in the beginning is very good: start very slow, increase the speed for 30 seconds, switch to buzzes for a while, go back to the slow speed. I feel like this really helps as a warm-up to get a better touch. It's nothing you'll master in a few days - you may keep that exercise forever. :) Chris Smith had a longer video about that exercise but it seems to be gone...
For me, some of the most useful exercises to make the strokes more even are:
- one bar of 8th notes singles, one bar of 16th notes doubles (the primary motion of the single stroke roll remains the same)
- one bar of 16th notes singles, one bar of 16th notes doubles (the rhythm remains the same)
- accenting the second stroke of each double like this rRlLrRlL
- also start with the left hand
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Sorry Auspicious, I didnt mean to discourage you. All I can say is keep at it...you seem disciplined enough. And it will "click" at some point...things will fall into place and you'll be like "Ah, so that's it..."
It's ok, you are not discouraging me. It's me against life or something like that.. or me facing the truth and being unable to handle it.

***
I worked to practice the rebound with the wrist and finger combination for the 2 stroke note just like in your video. I filmed myself and it's not really pleasant to watch, my fingers, they don't move in the process, I thought they moved but they don't. They are frozen there doing nothing.

I tried to do the same thing in French Grip just after, I get more finger activity with French grip.

I tried to get a higher rebound, to get the stick higher in German, but it won't go higher so far o_O I have a sore wrist right now, please let's not talk about my left hand yet.

This video is all I could produce for today.

 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Maybe you'll get something useful out of this video. Especially the exercise in the beginning is very good: start very slow, increase the speed for 30 seconds, switch to buzzes for a while, go back to the slow speed. I feel like this really helps as a warm-up to get a better touch. It's nothing you'll master in a few days - you may keep that exercise forever. :) Chris Smith had a longer video about that exercise but it seems to be gone...
For me, some of the most useful exercises to make the strokes more even are:
- one bar of 8th notes singles, one bar of 16th notes doubles (the primary motion of the single stroke roll remains the same)
- one bar of 16th notes singles, one bar of 16th notes doubles (the rhythm remains the same)
- accenting the second stroke of each double like this rRlLrRlL
- also start with the left hand
Ok thanks, I already have a video from Mr. Dior called "Mastering the traditional grip"

I'll add this one to my list of videos to watch, to assimilate and to practice... perhaps I'll start listening to it tonight. It's working slowly.. your previous video with the French grip has been revealing.
 

Sebenza

Member
This is an exercise I've done a lot and find that it helps with getting the basic double stroke roll more even. If you try to play all the 16th's notes at the same volume, the inverted rolls that start with the last stroke of the double in bars 4 and 8, kind of naturally force you to focus on that last stroke.
1622852608182.png
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
This is an exercise I've done a lot and find that it helps with getting the basic double stroke roll more even. If you try to play all the 16th's notes at the same volume, the inverted rolls that start with the last stroke of the double in bars 4 and 8, kind of naturally force you to focus on that last stroke.
View attachment 105039
Ok I will try it, but it's very very similar to the first pages of Stick Control, I already practice it!!
 

Sebenza

Member
Ok I will try it, but it's very very similar to the first pages of Stick Control, I already practice it!!
Hmm, not really...I wish I could record a video example of what I mean with the double stroke in that exercise as it relates to that two note stroke in the video I linked in your other thread. It would make it a lot clearer. Trying to explain this stuff by typing text on a messageboard is annoyingly difficult, damn.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Hmm, not really...I wish I could record a video example of what I mean with the double stroke in that exercise as it relates to that two note stroke in the video I linked in your other thread. It would make it a lot clearer. Trying to explain this stuff by typing text on a messageboard is annoyingly difficult, damn.
Publishing a video is very easy!

Join the following website by entering e-mail, user and password.

Once in, there is a button up right to browse the phone or computer and to select a video to upload. Once the video is uploaded and processed, you press another button to get a sharable http link that you simply copy there and paste here, in a post.

Video will appear in the post.

***
I need to work on some things now but I will practice your exercise today and give you news about it.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Hello again,

@Sebenza I tried your sheet and rolled a video of it, first part is German grip, second part in French grip. I think I see an improvement in my wrist with German grip, perhaps a bit more finger but lifting the stick higher.. that part is still difficult.


The second point with German, the place when the stick will hit in my hand is naturally A, I don't understand how it's possible for the stick to hit B.. orten the stick wil hit the wrist also, the arm itself.

k9o8LVM.jpg


For opinions again.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
What you're doing in the video looks fine, just try to play the second note of the doubles stronger, don't just bounce them. That's the entire reason for practicing doubles. Keep your back fingers on the stick all the time— in the video on post #30 you're just bouncing the doubles and your back fingers aren't doing anything.

Don't know what the photo above is about-- I would say never do anything like that.
 

Sebenza

Member
Hello again,

@Sebenza I tried your sheet and rolled a video of it, first part is German grip, second part in French grip. I think I see an improvement in my wrist with German grip, perhaps a bit more finger but lifting the stick higher.. that part is still difficult.


The second point with German, the place when the stick will hit in my hand is naturally A, I don't understand how it's possible for the stick to hit B.. orten the stick wil hit the wrist also, the arm itself.

k9o8LVM.jpg


For opinions again.
I'd take the exercise a bit slower and try to focus on getting that second note equal in volume to the first, like ToddBishop said.

You can try exaggerating while playing a long roll and really snap that second note with your fingers into your palm (at point A btw) , producing a louder note than the first, but you'll have to slow it down significantly for that. Once you get a consistently loud second note, you'll find that as you speed up to the tempo in your vid and faster, the notes will naturally even out, producing a nice even and controlled double stroke roll.

Don't do this with the exercise I posted though, the point of that one is getting all the singles, doubles and inverted doubles to sound the same.

Also, to me, your german grip sounds better than the french in playing doubles.

Good job, btw! Loop that exercise a couple of times a day whenever you have a few minutes to spare. It's a small and easy exercise, so it only takes a couple of minutes to loop it 10 or so times. It's the frequency that counts. The more you do it in small chunks throughout the day, the faster it will ingrain itself in your muscle memory.
 
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Auspicious

Well-known member
Hello thank you Todd and Sebenza for your notes.

I will try again and doing this:

- Playing the second note stronger or both equal.
- Keeping the fingers on the sticks. (Snapping the second note with the fingers)
- Playing the exercise slower.

***

@Sebenza thanks ok i will keep the exercice and practice it often during que week end and next week along with the previous recommandations. We will see next week if there is improvement, should be.

You prefer the German grip version, I have no opinion myself but it feels special to play it in French grip.. but again,, it's difficult to say which grip I prefer to play the specific exercise... According to my other thread, all grips will be useful for a specific situation.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Here is another attempt, I literally sit on the throne with the idea of using the fingers all the time and getting equal notes. This time, the camera points under my right hand, so we can really see if something happens with the fingers.

In the first part, German, I think occasionally the fingers work but most of the time, they don't, I still rely on the rebound like you guys pointed out to create a double with my right hand.


The problem is..
- I think about the wrist and forget about fingers.
- I think about fingers and forget about the wrist.
- I think about the 2 previous point and forget about producing equal doubles.

o_O

In the second part, French, somewhat, I think my technique is slightly better with the fingers.

What do you think?
 
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