Getting Paid

SVBJECT

Active Member
This is a solely American thing. Only we feel it necessary to pay service staff a $2.13/hr wage and then depend on the customer to make up the difference. Every other country I've dined in pays their staff a proper wage and are in awe of the whole tipping thing in America.
I'm aware where it comes from certainly from a customer perspective, but wow, for bands? Working bands tip fellow working staff to get more work?!?!?! Like, that is new to me. That's insane...
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
If you cant trust someone to have a shared pot with you, don't do business together.
But how can you trust someone you've barely known just a few months? Keep in mind, the more experienced you are as a musician, the more likely you find yourself performing with people and bands with less and less rehearsal time. Our get-up-to-speed cycle was 6 wks. There should be ways to do things that don't always require complete trust in others.

(Why not just give your band mates your bank account information so they can make a direct deposit after every gig? Or give them your credit card information so they book a room just in case you become incapacitated?)
 

SVBJECT

Active Member
Professionalism but that's out the window, sniffing on the job. But you need trust or Professionalism, no?
Someone trustworthy does right by you because you can put your trust in them, jut it takes time to build, your right.
Someone Professional does right by you because they value their skills correctly and wish to do well by their career, this shouldn't necessarily take so long to see if they have it, or not.
 

Lefty Phillips

Active Member
Which corporate structure one uses is dependent on revenue, yeah. All corporate structures serve to sequester revenue and limit liabilities (tax and otherwise).

Tipping is a positive experience, in my view. It gives me a chance to touch base with the employees who make my night go smoothly, and to show appreciation for their efforts. It definitely makes a favorable impression on them, because many acts don't bother. That definitely results in more gigs for my act.

But, I'm American, and really only play in the U.S. and Canada, where tipping is also appreciated. I've played in Europe, and I knew that tipping was frowned upon, so I didn't, but it felt strange. Nobody working any of the bars I usually play is making less than $15/hour as a baseline.

I don't care if my fellow players are smoking cannabis or snorting cocaine, so long as they can handle themselves. I don't mind if they're using heroin, so long as I don't know about it. Fired on the spot for methamphetamines. I encourage moderate drinking, especially when we get the audience to buy us drinks.

If you're in a new act, you don't have to trust your fellow players so much as assume that they're acting in good faith, as professionals do. It almost always works out in everyone's favor. After more than 3 decades of playing, I really only have 1 horror story?
 

SVBJECT

Active Member
Tipping is a positive experience, in my view. It gives me a chance to touch base with the employees who make my night go smoothly, and to show appreciation for their efforts. It definitely makes a favorable impression on them, because many acts don't bother. That definitely results in more gigs for my act
Tipping is a thing in the UK, I tip in restaurants, as long as I (who run bars and have run very-food led places) approve of the service, barstaff I'll usually buy drinks if I want to rather than tip but it's less common especially if I order at the bar (so less 'service'), and whether they pocket the money or drink it isn't my business.

Tipping in and of itself is fine, the issue is a) if they don't get the tips they don't get paid right ie, no rent, no food which seems to be the American way, and...
b) tipping as a non-customer, which I learnt about reading this thread today and seems literally insane to me! My bar had an electrician in today to service our glasswasher, the logic I see in here about musicians tipping barstaff is that he should have tipped my staff who were on so they recommend I hire him, over another sparky, next time I need a job done. That's just mad to me! Haha
 

Lefty Phillips

Active Member
Tipping is a thing in the UK, I tip in restaurants, as long as I (who run bars and have run very-food led places) approve of the service, barstaff I'll usually buy drinks if I want to rather than tip but it's less common especially if I order at the bar (so less 'service'), and whether they pocket the money or drink it isn't my business.

Tipping in and of itself is fine, the issue is a) if they don't get the tips they don't get paid right ie, no rent, no food which seems to be the American way, and...
b) tipping as a non-customer, which I learnt about reading this thread today and seems literally insane to me! My bar had an electrician in today to service our glasswasher, the logic I see in here about musicians tipping barstaff is that he should have tipped my staff who were on so they recommend I hire him, over another sparky, next time I need a job done. That's just mad to me! Haha
I'll keep that in mind should I have the pleasure of playing in the UK. As I mentioned above, and this is a general rule, bar staff doesn't get shafted the way that restaurant staff does. Everyone's getting minimum wage or better as a baseline in the joints I play, which includes some real dives!

I like tipping for the reasons I mentioned, mostly the first one. I like to show my appreciation to the people who make my night go smoothly. It feels good and wholesome to spend a moment thanking the people who protect me while I'm on stage and bust their asses at the bar to make all of us more money.

It wouldn't be the same situation were I an electrician, unless I ordered a drink after servicing the glasswasher. I would tip the bartender for the drink.
 

someguy01

Gold Member
Everyone's getting minimum wage or better as a baseline in the joints I play, which includes some real dives!
That is a CA/West coast thing. If you ever play anywhere on the east coast, especially the mid Atlantic on south, they make the federal $2.13 as most of those states don't have a state minimum wage.
Here in CO it's $9.30/hr which is still less than the non tipped minimum of $12.32/hr
 

Lefty Phillips

Active Member
That is a CA/West coast thing. If you ever play anywhere on the east coast, especially the mid Atlantic on south, they make the federal $2.13 as most of those states don't have a state minimum wage.
Here in CO it's $9.30/hr which is still less than the non tipped minimum of $12.32/hr
Yeah, I haven't played outside of CA, OR, WA, or BC for more than a decade. I'm not sure what to think about venues that pay $2.13/hour to their employees. It's not good, what I'm thinking, I can say that much.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
Professionalism but that's out the window, sniffing on the job. But you need trust or Professionalism, no?
Someone trustworthy does right by you because you can put your trust in them, jut it takes time to build, your right.
Someone Professional does right by you because they value their skills correctly and wish to do well by their career, this shouldn't necessarily take so long to see if they have it, or not.
Well, unfortunately the topic of this thread is Getting Paid, not How To Trust.
 

SVBJECT

Active Member
But how can you trust someone you've barely known just a few months?
Sorry just trying to answer this.
To be fair I felt my greater hijacking was of my English ignorance to your American tipping ways, for which I'm also sorry. Please carry on with your payment questions, I have nothing more to add.
 

doggyd69b

Well-known Member
But how can you trust someone you've barely known just a few months? Keep in mind, the more experienced you are as a musician, the more likely you find yourself performing with people and bands with less and less rehearsal time. Our get-up-to-speed cycle was 6 wks. There should be ways to do things that don't always require complete trust in others.

(Why not just give your band mates your bank account information so they can make a direct deposit after every gig? Or give them your credit card information so they book a room just in case you become incapacitated?)
Become incapacitated? what kind of gigs are you playing? the worst that ever happened to me was to have someone drink my beer and bleed all over my hi hats after getting an elbow to the nose that got him out of the mosh pit, his actions earned him a Sparta kick out of the stage from me.
I will never give anyone my credit card info unless she is my wife. not even to my mother or syster (my mother died way before I had a credit card and my sister doesn't need access to my $$). This is going to sound very weird but I do have it and it has never let me down:
I just need a minute to look someone in the eyes and I can tell if they are a good person or not.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
I just need a minute to look someone in the eyes and I can tell if they are a good person or not.
Doesn't matter if someone is a good person. Everyone has a devil inside them.
 

BruceW

Senior Member
The drums are a labor intensive part of the band, so yes, maybe bands out there typically think the drummer has enough work on his or her plate. I mean my last gig I was the first to start getting my gear on the stage and the first to start teardown and load. I have been doing this on my own lately. But still, it's just another musician, another member of the team. They didn't get with me and tell me only *they* were finding/scheduling gigs. I had to dig it out of them after the 6th gig.
There is obviously a lot of stuff that needs to be done (i.e. "jobs") for any band, and booking is one of them. Depending on the agreements and structure of your group, some may expect more pay for doing those "jobs", tho in my limited experience (small scale local weekend band) its a group share kinda thing. Everyone hopefully pitches in to get everything accomplished. (I realize that even in my little world, not everyone does this.... coughcoughguitarplayerscoughcough 😉)

Yes, set up and tear down is usually more time consuming for us drummers. I often feel guilty for not being able to help with the rest of the set up, but I do have more "stuff" to deal with. In our situation, everyone loads in, and everyone loads out. All our gear goes in one trailer, save for our new keyboard players stuff, and we help him schlep his gear out to his vehicle too.

Communication is the key. Maybe you need a dreaded "band meeting" to sort out all the particulars.

Hope it goes smoothly for you.
 
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No Way Jose

Silver Member
I notice that there is a severe labor shortage. There are help wanted signs in the windows at many stores. But for many it's still hard to find work as a musician.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I notice that there is a severe labor shortage.
More folks quit their job in August than any other time since the Labor department has been keeping records, 4.3 million people. In July it was 4 million. I really do believe that folks are sick of working for next to nothing and being treated like they dont matter. The realization that there is more to life than work is making it's way to the forefront.
 

someguy01

Gold Member
More folks quit their job in August than any other time since the Labor department has been keeping records, 4.3 million people. In July it was 4 million. I really do believe that folks are sick of working for next to nothing and being treated like they dont matter. The realization that there is more to life than work is making it's way to the forefront.
And on that "labor shortage" front:
 
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