timmdrum
Gold Member
I thought about posting this in the threads where these occurred, but for the sake of the OP's, I figured it warranted a new thread.
I used to post and reply here on Drummerworld a lot, and found an extremely supportive community where everyone was eager to share info, and even more importantly, everyone was courteous to each other (nearly unheard of on the internet) and disagreements were handled with patience and tact. Due to a job where I had to stare at a computer screen a lot, my time on here got cut way back, relegated to only when I had a bit of free time at work (which wasn't much), because I didn't want to come home and stare at a screen even more.
Fairly recently, I've been noticing the culture here change toward the worse some. One example: someone posted for assistance with something. I read some posts that didn't seem correct to me, so I commented- politely- with my 2 cents' worth. Apparently there were some mistakes in my replies. I went back and read some of those others' and my early posts in this thread, and saw several places where I misinterpreted and subsequently misspoke, and I found a couple of my posts where I stated something that was flat-out wrong. (I have no issue with being wrong; it's a learning opportunity.) Elsewhere, I could tell that one thing that I meant to say is true, but I used bad verbiage to explain it. I re-explained that, then with the correct verbiage, and I clarified that this is what I meant in the first place. However, even after this, some folks continued to explain this very point back to me, and still continued it even after I re-explained that this very point is what I meant and even quoted where I'd already said the very thing that was still being said to me. Then, the shenanigans started. Even though some others were apparently also wrong in their interpretations of the OP's question and in their replies, I started getting hammered with childish insults and condescending remarks. In another fairly recent example about the origin of something, someone posted an idea, and because I have a fair amount of jazz history knowledge (but didn't say that), I offered another idea that is rooted in factual historical accounts and points more to the origin. I never said his idea was "wrong" as to the reason it continues presently. The person argued against my statement, flat-out saying I was wrong (which made me wish my college jazz professors were on here, haha). Then after I defended it again, he said "I gave the reason for it", followed by "I don't need to argue with you about _____________", right after continuing to argue about it. I replied once more- and mind you, I remained polite and did not resort to insults, cursing (real or acronym-ed)- providing factual evidence as to why many of his statements were merely his opinions- not fact, as he stated multiple times. He came back with "WTF is this", did not acknowledge any of the facts that proved his argument wrong (of course), and said "I have no interest in this" (after all those replies). To summarize, he was happy to debate/argue/speculate/etc, until he was proven that his statements were either opinions or proven false, then he tried to ridicule me for doing it better than he did.
I have thick skin, and, combined with how I know people generally act in communicative avenues on the internet (forums, social media, etc), I wasn't bothered by it- rather amused, actually. There's a few in every crowd, and I got a chuckle from it. Others are noticing this trend from these select few, and I imagine, from others also. A couple of excerpts from private messages I've received in the wake of these posts (there are more, but these two are sufficient):
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"Just wanted to express my sympathy that you got caught in the douche-wave of ____________ and ________________. Besides ___________, they're the most annoying people on this forum. Both are deeply insecure people who feel like they have to prove themselves every second of their lives. I think a lot of people are quietly laughing about them behind the scenes..."
"Hi there Timmdrum. My name is ________. I have just seen your interaction with ___________. I understand how you feel about his comments. I refuse to speak to that man anymore. He did the exact same thing to me about some practice ideas I had. He just belittled, patronized, and insulted me. You have my understanding and support."
--------------------------------------------
A bit later, I was saddened somewhat by all this, not because of anything directed at me (again, thick skin, and I've been around children enough to know when adults are acting like them), but because I realized that Drummerworld had traditionally not been a place where people behaved like that. In my experience, in non-internet "real life", drummers have always been a pretty special, mutually supportive, communicative, and social gang, where we seemed to have each others' backs and enjoyed talking shop as much as we do, without some of the odd competitiveness and petty jabs I've witnessed within other groups of musicians, like (*shudder*) guitarists. (I'm kidding. But also not- in my experience, a much higher percentage of them seem to be like that.) Drummerworld's forum was always especially pleasant. It left me wondering if, in my time away from this site, the pleasant social climate on this site and among drummers generally (and maybe among people, period) is degrading in some manner. My all-day-on-the-computer job was from 2011-2019; is this some effect of the last two presidential elections, where some blowhard has brought about the idea that being a disrespectful asshat is acceptable behavior? Is it merely a continuation of the internet age phenomenon where some people will bow up from behind their keyboards in a manner that they wouldn't in person? (At least, I hope they wouldn't, lest they get their just desserts if they speak like that to the wrong person.)
I'm gonna try to stay positive about it all. Again, there's gonna be a few in every crowd, and Drummerworld is no exception, but I long for the time when stuff like this was much less common on here. I hope the few bad eggs don't spoil the bunch. I'm not some snowflake that needs a safe space for my widdle feelings to not get hurt (ESPECIALLY not from childishness). I hope in the future there will be fewer debates that degrade from friendliness and tact to "your opinion is wrong, doodyhead", and if a particular side of a debate gets proven false (not opinions, because they cannot be true or false), it can be acknowledged, even if he/she thinks he/she is the all-knowing one true Drum God, and admit that an opposing thought has merit, rather than he/she resorting to the online forum equivalent of "Shut up- I'm taking my football and going home." Or, if the case is that someone states something that has a mistake or two, it can be discussed politely, patiently, and without an air of superiority. We're all human, and not one person here is infallible, even on the subject of drumming.
I welcome your polite, educated, and informed replies. To those who wish to reply in the manners addressed above- go ahead. We'll be having a laugh at your expense.
I used to post and reply here on Drummerworld a lot, and found an extremely supportive community where everyone was eager to share info, and even more importantly, everyone was courteous to each other (nearly unheard of on the internet) and disagreements were handled with patience and tact. Due to a job where I had to stare at a computer screen a lot, my time on here got cut way back, relegated to only when I had a bit of free time at work (which wasn't much), because I didn't want to come home and stare at a screen even more.
Fairly recently, I've been noticing the culture here change toward the worse some. One example: someone posted for assistance with something. I read some posts that didn't seem correct to me, so I commented- politely- with my 2 cents' worth. Apparently there were some mistakes in my replies. I went back and read some of those others' and my early posts in this thread, and saw several places where I misinterpreted and subsequently misspoke, and I found a couple of my posts where I stated something that was flat-out wrong. (I have no issue with being wrong; it's a learning opportunity.) Elsewhere, I could tell that one thing that I meant to say is true, but I used bad verbiage to explain it. I re-explained that, then with the correct verbiage, and I clarified that this is what I meant in the first place. However, even after this, some folks continued to explain this very point back to me, and still continued it even after I re-explained that this very point is what I meant and even quoted where I'd already said the very thing that was still being said to me. Then, the shenanigans started. Even though some others were apparently also wrong in their interpretations of the OP's question and in their replies, I started getting hammered with childish insults and condescending remarks. In another fairly recent example about the origin of something, someone posted an idea, and because I have a fair amount of jazz history knowledge (but didn't say that), I offered another idea that is rooted in factual historical accounts and points more to the origin. I never said his idea was "wrong" as to the reason it continues presently. The person argued against my statement, flat-out saying I was wrong (which made me wish my college jazz professors were on here, haha). Then after I defended it again, he said "I gave the reason for it", followed by "I don't need to argue with you about _____________", right after continuing to argue about it. I replied once more- and mind you, I remained polite and did not resort to insults, cursing (real or acronym-ed)- providing factual evidence as to why many of his statements were merely his opinions- not fact, as he stated multiple times. He came back with "WTF is this", did not acknowledge any of the facts that proved his argument wrong (of course), and said "I have no interest in this" (after all those replies). To summarize, he was happy to debate/argue/speculate/etc, until he was proven that his statements were either opinions or proven false, then he tried to ridicule me for doing it better than he did.
I have thick skin, and, combined with how I know people generally act in communicative avenues on the internet (forums, social media, etc), I wasn't bothered by it- rather amused, actually. There's a few in every crowd, and I got a chuckle from it. Others are noticing this trend from these select few, and I imagine, from others also. A couple of excerpts from private messages I've received in the wake of these posts (there are more, but these two are sufficient):
--------------------------------------------
"Just wanted to express my sympathy that you got caught in the douche-wave of ____________ and ________________. Besides ___________, they're the most annoying people on this forum. Both are deeply insecure people who feel like they have to prove themselves every second of their lives. I think a lot of people are quietly laughing about them behind the scenes..."
"Hi there Timmdrum. My name is ________. I have just seen your interaction with ___________. I understand how you feel about his comments. I refuse to speak to that man anymore. He did the exact same thing to me about some practice ideas I had. He just belittled, patronized, and insulted me. You have my understanding and support."
--------------------------------------------
A bit later, I was saddened somewhat by all this, not because of anything directed at me (again, thick skin, and I've been around children enough to know when adults are acting like them), but because I realized that Drummerworld had traditionally not been a place where people behaved like that. In my experience, in non-internet "real life", drummers have always been a pretty special, mutually supportive, communicative, and social gang, where we seemed to have each others' backs and enjoyed talking shop as much as we do, without some of the odd competitiveness and petty jabs I've witnessed within other groups of musicians, like (*shudder*) guitarists. (I'm kidding. But also not- in my experience, a much higher percentage of them seem to be like that.) Drummerworld's forum was always especially pleasant. It left me wondering if, in my time away from this site, the pleasant social climate on this site and among drummers generally (and maybe among people, period) is degrading in some manner. My all-day-on-the-computer job was from 2011-2019; is this some effect of the last two presidential elections, where some blowhard has brought about the idea that being a disrespectful asshat is acceptable behavior? Is it merely a continuation of the internet age phenomenon where some people will bow up from behind their keyboards in a manner that they wouldn't in person? (At least, I hope they wouldn't, lest they get their just desserts if they speak like that to the wrong person.)
I'm gonna try to stay positive about it all. Again, there's gonna be a few in every crowd, and Drummerworld is no exception, but I long for the time when stuff like this was much less common on here. I hope the few bad eggs don't spoil the bunch. I'm not some snowflake that needs a safe space for my widdle feelings to not get hurt (ESPECIALLY not from childishness). I hope in the future there will be fewer debates that degrade from friendliness and tact to "your opinion is wrong, doodyhead", and if a particular side of a debate gets proven false (not opinions, because they cannot be true or false), it can be acknowledged, even if he/she thinks he/she is the all-knowing one true Drum God, and admit that an opposing thought has merit, rather than he/she resorting to the online forum equivalent of "Shut up- I'm taking my football and going home." Or, if the case is that someone states something that has a mistake or two, it can be discussed politely, patiently, and without an air of superiority. We're all human, and not one person here is infallible, even on the subject of drumming.
I welcome your polite, educated, and informed replies. To those who wish to reply in the manners addressed above- go ahead. We'll be having a laugh at your expense.