Do all guitarists think Black Dog by LZ is random magical timing?

I believe even Led Zeppelin had fun trying to replicate the recording. If you listen to the tune from IV and then listen to the live versions they've done you will hear that they don't do the pauses the way they did them on the record. At least this is what I've found when I learned to play the tune for my band. I learned most of it from the record. Then I figured out the breaks from the live versions. They are not the same. When they play it live they don't pause but play the next line in time. Unless I'm cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Which is highly probable.
Don't know if it's true or not, but according to Theodore Gracyk's book, Listening to Popular Music, Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Led Zeppelin, in the studio the acapella bits have a measure of 5/4, but live, they changed that to 4/4 so the band were more assured of all coming back in together.
 

MntnMan62

Junior Member
Don't know if it's true or not, but according to Theodore Gracyk's book, Listening to Popular Music, Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Led Zeppelin, in the studio the acapella bits have a measure of 5/4, but live, they changed that to 4/4 so the band were more assured of all coming back in together.

That might be the case. But the problem I found with the original recording was that they pause on some of the breaks and don't pause on others. I haven't been able to count it out though. I've only been able to play it by feel. That's a cop out, I know. I need to sit with it and work on it some more.
 

danondrums

Well-known member
That might be the case. But the problem I found with the original recording was that they pause on some of the breaks and don't pause on others. I haven't been able to count it out though. I've only been able to play it by feel. That's a cop out, I know. I need to sit with it and work on it some more.
I’m fairly certain all the vocal only sections are 4/4+5/4 on the studio album. But I guess that’s only if you count the parts out of the chorus as 5/8 or 3/8 depending on which one. But that count feels best to me as it makes sense to always start the vocal phrase on 1.
 
That might be the case. But the problem I found with the original recording was that they pause on some of the breaks and don't pause on others. I haven't been able to count it out though. I've only been able to play it by feel. That's a cop out, I know. I need to sit with it and work on it some more.
I don't think that's a cop-out at all. I've always assumed that even beyond not recording to a click (obviously), they deliberately choose to play those sections with a certain amount of rubato. And, again, there's at least the one Bonham stick click to lead the band back in, and maybe more than were successfully muted.
 

River19

Senior Member
That might be the case. But the problem I found with the original recording was that they pause on some of the breaks and don't pause on others. I haven't been able to count it out though. I've only been able to play it by feel. That's a cop out, I know. I need to sit with it and work on it some more.

Not a cop out per se. Honestly, in 35 years of playing, I have consciously counted maybe 0.78% of the time other than when taking lessons in the first 10 years. I rely on feel 99% of the time......and it works for me. I occasionally count or count off breaks like on Reelin' in the Years but primarily for the band not myself. I find when I "get it" from a feel perspective......it sticks, where counting is an academic exercise for me.

Everyone works differently......go with what works for you. Of course if it isn't working, then try another approach.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I seem to remember Mr. Appice struggling with it a well.
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
Interesting conversation, about how to copy an original song by a band accused of copying! of course there is a count you can hear the sticks.. Didn't Robert Plant say after Robert Johnson we are all just beggars and thieves..
 

danondrums

Well-known member
Interesting conversation, about how to copy an original song by a band accused of copying! of course there is a count you can hear the sticks.. Didn't Robert Plant say after Robert Johnson we are all just beggars and thieves..
I enjoy the quote that is something along the lines of success in music is usually about copying and not being caught. There’s some truth to that I feel.
 
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