Discoveries of the day - New heavier sticks

Auspicious

Silver Member
I followed a suggestion from this forum about sticks, to practice my rudiments on my pad.. And last week I discovered a deficiency in my single strokes..

The maximum speed my left hand can hit without a rebound on a head or the pad..is kind of slow.. and to help me, I went to the store and bought a pair of heavier sticks.. to achieve a more efficient workout. (Hopefully heavier enough)

A pair of "Innovative percussion" bought on sale for 12.50 CAD total.
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After trying at least 6 pairs of various brands.. Pro-marks, Vic Firth, Zildjian, the IP-LD won the contest.. :unsure: they have a comfortable balance and diameter and they are much heavier then my usual sticks, the Zildjian Dip 7a. It's 63g per sticks for the Innovative percussion vs 43g for the Zildjian 7a.

They had even heavier Vic Firth but the diameter was uncomfortable for my fingers. It took at least 15 minutes of pad practicing in the store to pick the right sticks.

The new ones are heavier for me and my new workout.

***
I practice this exercise from +-5 strokes each hand and moving up to +-10 strokes each hands, moving up and down. It's a struggle for speed.. such as this video, it's not the fastest I can go.. but not really far away.

I found that major limitation in my playing.. and working that out now.. we will see. (Along with single stroke exercices, instead of doing the "drum rolls" in RRLL it's RLRL.)

***

This is the second discovery.. the new and old sticks on the cymbal.. ? it looks like 2 different cymbals nonetheless!! amazing.. I prefer the sound produced by the Zildjian 7a.. the Innovative are way too brutal, they don't work well with that cymbal.


Learning new things, fun!

NOTE: David Ogorsky is not my real name.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
I love the IP Lalo Davilas!!! Those are my go to concert band sticks when I am not using Coopermans...

I studied with him a bit back in the 2000's and 2010's...great guy....great educator
 

SomeBadDrummer

Gold Member
David Ogorsky I recently bought some Vic Firth rubber practice tips to help reduce volume at home. To my surprise and astonishment, I have better control, feel and ability to play triplets with the heavier tips. I switch back to regular 7a’s and lose something. And it seems to be building hand /wrist strength. We’ll see how it goes.
 

Auspicious

Silver Member
I love the IP Lalo Davilas!!! Those are my go to concert band sticks when I am not using Coopermans...

I studied with him a bit back in the 2000's and 2010's...great guy....great educator

Alright! Then I made a good choice!

Do you consider them heavy weight sticks?

Nice sticks the Coppermans, I'll check Lalo's work tomorrow,
 

Auspicious

Silver Member
David Ogorsky I recently bought some Vic Firth rubber practice tips to help reduce volume at home. To my surprise and astonishment, I have better control, feel and ability to play triplets with the heavier tips. I switch back to regular 7a’s and lose something. And it seems to be building hand /wrist strength. We’ll see how it goes.

Ahh ok ok interesting. which model of Vic Firth?
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I never noticed how much the rubber coated Zildjian 7A favor the Steve Gadd stick. Right now my go to stick is the Budd rich stick -I like the fatter stick down the shaft-it has a small tip-prone to chip but it sort of rounds itself off back to a useable tip. This is my second pair and I'm ordering more-I like I can cross-stick without flipping with the heavier shaft.
 

MntnMan62

Junior Member
My first drum teacher when I was a teen told me to use heavier sticks on the practice pad. That was back around 1975 or 1976. Since I had settled on 5As, I use 5Bs on the pad. It really does help. A lot. I just use a Reel Feel pad on a stand. And to keep the noise down a bit a drape a small towel over it.
 

Matt Suda

Member
Trad grip is great; I always enjoy seeing forum members who use it. I’ve found the alternating strokes exercise from your video to be helpful for counting and for my ear on top of building up proficiency in the weaker hand. As a funny aside, one of my drum teachers from high school drilled into me not to use heavier sticks when practicing. I don’t feel strongly either way, it’s just interesting how conventional wisdom develops and is passed on.

I think digging into the trad grip and really deconstructing its parts is key to improving. Rick Dior has a great video that goes beyond the basics of holding the stick and into using the thumb to “snap” the stick. Maybe you’re already familiar. Some serious players have talked about developing their trad grip over the course of years, so patience and enjoying the journey works for me. Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

SomeBadDrummer

Gold Member
Oh ok ok I didn't know these existed.

Next time I go to the store, I'll ask about these tips.

But their initial purpose is to produce less noise with the sticks ?
Yes, but on the package note is says "Also creates interesting timbres on drums and cymbals" which is very true. And the added weight is also something interesting to me.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
Alright! Then I made a good choice!

Do you consider them heavy weight sticks?

Nice sticks the Coppermans, I'll check Lalo's work tomorrow,

no...I do marching band stuff a lot, so the Lalo sticks are still very light weight to my hands...I think they would be a straight down the middle medium weight stick in the grand scheme of things though...

I use Vic Firth 3a's on drumset...which are also probably more of a medium weight compared to everything;
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Phrasing.
I like the fatter shaft down the stick. :ROFLMAO:
Wait now it sounds like a catheter. There is no good way to say it. I like Buddy Rich sticks they are longer with a fatter shaft. They have a tapered tip and I like the round one better. I'm just on a run with them I'll tire and find something different. I can't help myself.
 

rebonn

Senior Member
I like a fat shaft too ? I think it's called a shoulder with a short taper as opposed to a shoulder with a long taper (thinner). Although I've just acquired my fist pair of Ahead sticks and I think I'm gonna like em. They're a bit heavier but the weight is distributed nicely. They seem a tad short for the weight (16 1/4). I think I'll try some a little longer. Ahead makes heavy practice sticks as well. I use Vater 3S for working out.
 

wraub

Silver Member
For the time being. I have found my sticks.
The are Vater Fatback 3A, a little fatter than some, but the way they fit my hand is really good, and the feel is great.
Grip is 0.590" apparently, as compared to 0.570" for the Vater 5A.

As always, ymmv and whatnot. ;)
 

rebonn

Senior Member
For the time being. I have found my sticks.
The are Vater Fatback 3A, a little fatter than some, but the way they fit my hand is really good, and the feel is great.
Grip is 0.590" apparently, as compared to 0.570" for the Vater 5A.

As always, ymmv and whatnot. ;)

I'm wanting to try the Vater 5A Extreme.
 

Auspicious

Silver Member
My first drum teacher when I was a teen told me to use heavier sticks on the practice pad. That was back around 1975 or 1976. Since I had settled on 5As, I use 5Bs on the pad. It really does help. A lot. I just use a Reel Feel pad on a stand. And to keep the noise down a bit a drape a small towel over it.

Ok hitting a small towel I am about to try it, good idea.

I have no frame of reference now about stick weight, to be studied during the week end.
Yes, but on the package note is says "Also creates interesting timbres on drums and cymbals" which is very true. And the added weight is also something interesting to me.

I believe you, there was a pair of Promarks with the tip of it noticabely heavier, real strange balancing with heavier front end of the stick. I liked it but eventually opted for a point of balance more in the middle of the stick.. I might buy these Promarks next.
 

Auspicious

Silver Member
no...I do marching band stuff a lot, so the Lalo sticks are still very light weight to my hands...I think they would be a straight down the middle medium weight stick in the grand scheme of things though...

I use Vic Firth 3a's on drumset...which are also probably more of a medium weight compared to everything;

Ok ok probably because I was into super lightweight sticks which must be uncommon, I've got a false impression caused by lack of experience with different kind of regular heavy sticks, probably that.

To be continued.


Trad grip is great; I always enjoy seeing forum members who use it. I’ve found the alternating strokes exercise from your video to be helpful for counting and for my ear on top of building up proficiency in the weaker hand. As a funny aside, one of my drum teachers from high school drilled into me not to use heavier sticks when practicing. I don’t feel strongly either way, it’s just interesting how conventional wisdom develops and is passed on.

I think digging into the trad grip and really deconstructing its parts is key to improving. Rick Dior has a great video that goes beyond the basics of holding the stick and into using the thumb to “snap” the stick. Maybe you’re already familiar. Some serious players have talked about developing their trad grip over the course of years, so patience and enjoying the journey works for me. Good luck! Keep us posted.


Glad you like it yes! The traditional is all I ever practice, it's a second nature now, I never really practiced matchgrip. My grip is perhaps not perfect, but I get a good rebound, it feels ok even if my hand is kind of slow and it's lacking the Moeller method. The speed and control will surely improve with the new sticks, medium weight.

I was not aware of snapping the stick with the thumb, no.

Thanks for the video.. I might publish a better video of my grip later for analysis.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
Ok ok probably because I was into super lightweight sticks which must be uncommon, I've got a false impression caused by lack of experience with different kind of regular heavy sticks, probably that.

To be continued.

not uncommon...i think most guys who did not do marching band, play with the 5a/5b/7a etc size sticks....I definitely think I am in the minority of people who play set with heavier sticks....a lot of the guys around town here think my 3A's feel like telephone poles...and I can't even feel 5a's, 5b's, 4a's etc in my hand...it literally feels like nothing is in my hand

I tried using the LD's for set for a quick minute, and I was afraid I was going to snap the stick at the bead because the taper from the shoulder to the bead is quick and thin...but I loved the bead sound on the ride cymbal

but for concert band, they get a great fluid bounce feel for rolls and stuff like that because of that quick, thin taper...

all of my students start with the Lalo DAvila's though
 
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