Carnivore diet.

[s1212z]

Absolutely correct and the illegal destruction of the Amazon rainforest for soy production to feed KFC's chickens was a reason that before I was even a vegetarian, I wouldn't eat at KFC. Cargill's did this and it was made public back in 2006 and there was a story just yesterday about a Cargill's farm in the UK destroying the ecosystem of the River Wye in Herefordshire.

It is a complex issue, like biofuels. There is no 'right' answer and I've not once said that people shouldn't eat meat. I just believe that if you are eating meat, you should understand where it comes from and understand that it's not appropriate on environmental or health grounds to eat it three times a day.

Complex is right...as if we don't have enough problems, there is also top soil erosion issue at an alarming rate. Lower crop yields, less nutritious than before.

 

[JimmyM]

What a depressing thread.

 

[opentune]

Complex is right...as if we don't have enough problems, there is also top soil erosion issue at an alarming rate. Lower crop yields, less nutritious than before.

Bingo. All these vegetable vs. meat vs. everything will be moot points long term when there is little to no nutrients left for soil to raise anything . You cannot fertilize your way out of this either as there is limit to the global supply of potassium, nitrogen and phosphorous from mining. Nobody even spoke about global fishing either. Too many people will be eating too little food.
We can decide what heads to use, cymbals t obuy, drums to gig with, but not all world crises can be solved in Drum Forum.

 

[calan]

We can decide what heads to use, cymbals t obuy, drums to gig with, but not all world crises can be solved in Drum Forum.

We're probably overdue for making a gripe thread wherein various members opine that Bernhard and the mod team are not doing enough to solve impending collapse.

Also, I'm pretty sure the venerable Yamaha Stage Custom can probably solve all of these issues.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

Would be interested to know how many of the meat eaters on the thread have actually been to a slaughterhouse or a poultry processing plant or appreciate how meat is produced. I worked in this industry in a prior life and I couldn’t in good conscience continue to support it knowing and seeing what i did.

I’m vegan and have never been healthier but to me that was a side benefit of making a conscious choice not to support cruelty. To me any meat consumption is supporting the inhumane treatment of innocent and sentient animals. End of rant. 🤷

yeahh...that was another reason I started to momitor whhat I was really eating about 15 years ago.

Bingo. All these vegetable vs. meat vs. everything will be moot points long term when there is little to no nutrients left for soil to raise anything . You cannot fertilize your way out of this either as there is limit to the global supply of potassium, nitrogen and phosphorous from mining. Nobody even spoke about global fishing either. Too many people will be eating too little food.
We can decide what heads to use, cymbals t obuy, drums to gig with, but not all world crises can be solved in Drum Forum.

yeah. the real problem is overpopulation and greed... with greed of many kinds fueling overpopulation....

humans have always "mowed over" which ever biome they decided to stop and settle down in. Eventually, they create their own fate, die off a bit and move on to the next area. Again, the Balance of Nature. I think we are nearing the beginning of another great die off.

Things are out of balance

 

[opentune]

yeahh...that was another reason I started to momitor whhat I was really eating about 15 years ago.
yeah. the real problem is overpopulation and greed... with greed of many kinds fueling overpopulation....

humans have always "mowed over" which ever biome they decided to stop and settle down in. Eventually, they create their own fate, die off a bit and move on to the next area. Again, the Balance of Nature. I think we are nearing the beginning of another great die off.

Things are out of balance

But hey I played drums for an hour today and thought about none of this. Pure bliss. One reason I usually stay out of Off Topic Lounge.

 

[Smoke]

I've worked in a slaughterhouse. Cattle, hogs, sheep and goats. I've worked on a dairy farm and know two local dairy farmers. I have a small garden where I grow above and below ground vegetables and some sunflowers for the birds. Some of the veg harvest is consumed immediately, much is canned or frozen. I drink well water from a shallow well. I hunt, kill, process and eat venison (odocoileus virginianus borealis). I typically buy 1/2 of a locally raised small beef, 1/2 of a pig and a handful of locally raised chickens for the freezer, per annum. Mrs Smoke and I eliminate waste (trash, power, consumables, everything!) wherever possible - not for any altruistic reason, but because we save money and make less of a mess on God's green earth. My teeth and gut give me a pretty good idea of what to consume - my taste buds enjoy a few sweets and salts.

We moved from south-central Michigan, USA to northeastern, lower Michigan - mostly for the slower pace of life, but also for the availability of food closer to the source. My guess is that the pace of life will extend my days more than the change in diet.

I understand that my days on this earth are limited, genetics notwithstanding. In my opinion, ionizing radiation (television, cell phone, radio, wireless internet, bluetooth, GPS, ground/soil sources, effects of the sun, etc.) is more detrimental to a person's long-term health than a balanced diet, though that's likely another topic for a separate discussion.

Fun post! I wonder how long it'll remain before someone is offended by posts from carnivores or vegans and it gets closed/deleted?

Edit: I own a 6 piece Stage Custom drum set. It suits me fine!

 

[Jeremy Bender]

We're probably overdue for making a gripe thread wherein various members opine that Bernhard and the mod team are not doing enough to solve impending collapse.

Also, I'm pretty sure the venerable Yamaha Stage Custom can probably solve all of these issues.

It does make one long for the simpler days of white Mapex Saturn bantering.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

But hey I played drums for an hour today and thought about none of this. Pure bliss. One reason I usually stay out of Off Topic Lounge.

ohh yeah...I played drums and bass in two different band practices today - roughly 6 total hours - and had a blast. And still think about this kind of stuff because if not, then I am part of the problem. Being aware and having a plan is not a bad thing. My mind is always formulating a plan....

plus many of the songs in my one band are about current topics/issues/problems...

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Well, I'm gonna do something really crazy and have some breakfast.

 

[C. Dave Run]

Time for coffee. Just coffee. I'll eat later when I get hungry.

Well, I'm gonna do something really crazy and have some breakfast.

That is crazy! I stopped eating breakfast probably 30 years ago.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

That is crazy! I stopped eating breakfast probably 30 years ago.

Works for some, but I like living on the edge.

Afterwards I went for a walk around the fjord and observed som future meals that seemed to be doing pretty ok.

 

[C. Dave Run]

Works for some, but I like living on the edge.

Afterwards I went for a walk around the fjord and observed som future meals that seemed to be doing pretty ok.

View attachment 124690

View attachment 124689

That's beautiful. Looks a bit too cold for my liking. But then again its probably too hot here for most folks.

As for breakfast, I pick and choose (graze) throughout the day then have a sensible dinner. I dont eat until my body tells me to. If it doesnt tell me to, I don't eat.

I view food as fuel. Last nights dinner is this mornings fuel. I dont need to fuel/work/fuel/work/fuel. That's lopsided. I need to work/fuel/work/fuel.

The coffee helps wake up, but that's about it.

 

[GetAgrippa]

Huh you're from Norway? That may explain your affinity for fish and meats. After ice receded last 10k years humans migrated into Nordic region becoming Viking culture-fish and meat plentiful-veggies not so much except some wild celery, wild onion, and peas from what I read-so they didn't have a lot of vegetative choices apparently. I'm sure gardens have changed there but I bet meat and fish still a main stay in your culture? Nordic populations likely have evolved metabolic differences like Inuits that lack dairy, fruit, and veggies. It's really interesting how diet has molded the evolution of cultures-the inuits have several mutations in fat metabolism. I bet Nordic population likely have some similar metabolic mutations that aided survival in those environments. Though the same population seeded China, India and Americas look how their environment/diet molded their evolution differently (most of this just last 10k years of rapid genetic changes in humans-a lot immunological genes but also metabolism). I remember a study done on kids and their diets-they offered a table of healthy to bad food choices. Initially the kids took to bad choices but over time they all ate a balanced diet. These studies of unique populations and their diet and genes make me hesitant of a lot of these epidemiological studies -especially ones that lack any validation. We had a epidemiological research institute at the medical school and a lot of us basic hands on controlled animal model researchers had a hard time being convinced of their inferences given our hands on controlled studies with gold standard comparisons and correlations have failed to convince anyone of squat. I don't discount them (well some I do that were crappy design and misuse of statistics) but I'm hesitant because in biology there is always exceptions to any rule and it ignores genetics.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

That's beautiful. Looks a bit too cold for my liking. But then again its probably too hot here for most folks.

As for breakfast, I pick and choose (graze) throughout the day then have a sensible dinner. I dont eat until my body tells me to. If it doesnt tell me to, I don't eat.

I view food as fuel. Last nights dinner is this mornings fuel. I dont need to fuel/work/fuel/work/fuel. That's lopsided. I need to work/fuel/work/fuel.

The coffee helps wake up, but that's about it.

About 10 Cs and raining little bit.

My experience with coffee these 45+ years is about two sips and one espresso.

 

[cbphoto]

Huh you're from Norway?

This is news to you, Doctor?

 

[GetAgrippa]

I drink 4-5 cups of coffee a day-which is now classified as "Healthy". Just a few years ago science said that was detrimental and shorten my lifespan-cardiovascular risk, cancer risk, etc. -but now it's "healthy". Epidemiological studies just a few years back "Coffee is one of the most widely consumed beverages, and some studies have suggested it may be related to cardiovascular disease (CVD), the leading cause of poor health in the world." Now it reduces my risk for type II diabetes, Alzheimers, less depression, cardioprotetive, etc. . My how the worm turns.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Huh you're from Norway? That may explain your affinity for fish and meats. After ice receded last 10k years humans migrated into Nordic region becoming Viking culture-fish and meat plentiful-veggies not so much except some wild celery, wild onion, and peas from what I read-so they didn't have a lot of vegetative choices apparently. I'm sure gardens have changed there but I bet meat and fish still a main stay in your culture? Nordic populations likely have evolved metabolic differences like Inuits that lack dairy, fruit, and veggies. It's really interesting how diet has molded the evolution of cultures-the inuits have several mutations in fat metabolism. I bet Nordic population likely have some similar metabolic mutations that aided survival in those environments. Though the same population seeded China, India and Americas look how their environment/diet molded their evolution differently (most of this just last 10k years of rapid genetic changes in humans-a lot immunological genes but also metabolism). I remember a study done on kids and their diets-they offered a table of healthy to bad food choices. Initially the kids took to bad choices but over time they all ate a balanced diet. These studies of unique populations and their diet and genes make me hesitant of a lot of these epidemiological studies -especially ones that lack any validation. We had a epidemiological research institute at the medical school and a lot of us basic hands on controlled animal model researchers had a hard time being convinced of their inferences given our hands on controlled studies with gold standard comparisons and correlations have failed to convince anyone of squat. I don't discount them (well some I do that were crappy design and misuse of statistics) but I'm hesitant because in biology there is always exceptions to any rule and it ignores genetics.

Norway is very much grains and potatoes.

Until we found oil, very recently, we were a pretty poor country and a farmers generally wouldn't afford themselves much meat. Food for rich people.

Go fishing if you had the time, buy a barrel of salty herring and maybe roast on Sundays.

To find true traditional stuff you're probably better off going to Iceland or the British Isles.

If I was to name a true Norwegian national dish, it would probably be a frozen pizza called Pizza Grandiosa that's actually made in our neighbouring town Stranda.

Traditional food and pre Christian culture we've not been very good at preserving, though there is probably increasing interest in both.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

I drink 4-5 cups of coffee a day-which is now classified as "Healthy". Just a few years ago science said that was detrimental and shorten my lifespan-cardiovascular risk, cancer risk, etc. -but now it's "healthy". Epidemiological studies just a few years back "Coffee is one of the most widely consumed beverages, and some studies have suggested it may be related to cardiovascular disease (CVD), the leading cause of poor health in the world." Now it reduces my risk for type II diabetes, Alzheimers, less depression, cardioprotetive, etc. . My how the worm turns.

Probably not the healthiest thing one can consume, but the main issues is probably caffeine and being dependent on the stuff to simply get going every day. There will be some sort of adrenal burnout, eventually. People's tolerances will vary greatly.

Most studies aren't really to be relied upon for anything. I's estimated that even 85% of serious universities studies are menings less due to funding based bias. Today's poison, tomorrow's panacea.

Personal choice.

What I'm doing is sort of considered the starting point of an elimination diet and then you can slowly test one thing at a time to see how you do. Some of us, after doing it for a while and doing more research have just decided to mostly stick to it. Things change. Taste changes. Bread to me today pretty much tastes like paper. Some of the other stuff I used to enjoy, but I mostly don't anymore.

 

[SmoothOperator]

You don't really have to go far back for plant foods we look at as essential today to not really exist, for several reasons. Importing of things out of season is fairly new. Most of those things are never in season where you're at. Some oranges for Christmas when my parents grew up. All extremely hybridized to be sweeter and larger.

Veggies, too. Lethal until we breed most of the worst toxins out og them. Some are still really bad. Arugula is not too bad. Kale and spinach though really is. Cooking helps, but what does that say? Yes, we cook meat, but it's not for toxins or digestion, it's just smart when dealing with wild meat to kill parasites.

Traditional plant food? Akorns that you rinsed for days or weeks, other things were fermented, then dried and you made some sort of bread out of them. That's plant food. Grains are pretty new as well. Easy to grow survival food, but when that became the norm is when our teeth got shot. Grinding on rocks didn't help either, but that's more physical wear and tear than the por nutrition it already represents.

Here it would be 3-5 week long season of various berries. Maybe some kelp. Spices? Well, I think Norwegians adopting anything more than the typical bread and cake spices happened pretty much during my lifetime, so..

Prior to potatoes the vikings had angelica, broad beans, carrots, onions and garlic. Those onions and carrots still were not what we would recognize today and that's still pretty recent. The Vikings series didn't get much right, but snacking on dried herring was probably accurate. I'm growing angelica myself now just because.

Plants are medicine for other carnivores as well, but you don't take medicine every day. If there's an issue you take it as long as the benefit is greater than the harm it does.

It's quite possible that some populations are well adapted to some plant foods if that was an option they were dependent on. White rice would be one of the more obvious ones. Stored better, yes, but you also got rid of the fiber and other anti-nutrients.

There's all sorts of stuff. The vegetarian thing is yoga seems to be far from it's origins. Fish and bread in the Bible probably meant meat and fish.

That any green vegetables are somehow essential for human health? There's absolutely no real evidence. Evidence of harmful effects though plenty. Goitrogens. A real issue.

Thee's a case to be made for vitamin C, but then again, if you don't eat the carbs it's not an issue. If you understand what processes require vitamin C that's clear. If scurvy was a concern we'd see a lot of that in carnivores a long time ago. Obviously, an issue if all you eat is hard tack and salted herring, but then we know why it's an issue.

RDA values make little sense, Mr. Keys was behind those as well btw., as those change very much depending on what your diet actually is. With animal foods everything you need is provided in it's most bio available for. If you stick to ruminants, that's even more true as issues with pork, chicken etc are quite common. I also generally eat only the yolk of eggs, as the whites do nothing for me, just as a wild fox would do.

I still have a few plant things I've not lost my taste for and I don't really think they're anything special when it comes to nutrition. They're simply not the worst and I happen to enjoy them occasionally. Avocados and potatoes are at the top with potassium, at least if were talking about something that's easy to eat in relevant amounts. A pound of kale really isn't.

Thanks that is an interesting perspective. This is one of the reasons I like to dig on Old World foods, especially the rice eaters. America's climate is such that despite being nomadic. Native American's had unusually large cellar's or as they called them food caches. They ate corn of course, except for the West Coast which ate acorns. However, they had an unusually large number of staples. Beans, grains, nuts, sun flower seeds, pumpkin seeds, wild rice etc. I'm not sure when but I believe the southern Natives had sweet potatoes. In addition to eating large amounts of buffalo and other game. They didn't have tomatoes or peppers until later, but they were doing the same things that the Mexican's were doing using berries making wojapi salsa's. They were seminomadic and had lots of trail food. I am getting into the nuts and dried meats, excellent.

If you were dying of scruvy in the middle of winter and the Native American medicine man gave you spruce tip tea, and it made you better, that really was medicine. They didn't have many vegetables, however they did make a very many tisane infusions. Some of them were to get sodium or potassium eg salt. Others vitamin C. etc.