Bitcoin

someguy01

Gold Member
China is not mining Bitcoin to use it, they’re mining it for the day the US Dollar or Euro defaults.
If the US dollar were to default, China would stand to lose billions. They hold the bonds for a large portion of our debt.
$1.07 trillion or roughly 15.5%
Second only to Japan.
 

SVBJECT

Regular Poster
China is not mining Bitcoin to use it, they’re mining it for the day the US Dollar or Euro defaults.
This. Cold War is far from over. No one in the east believes it is. Playing dead is a time old tactic. Communism vs Capitalism have not finished playing it out.

Arguably they're barely communist anymore, but with all the regulations on markets and dystopian selling of instant gratification to the masses we're barely capitalist. Or at least we've forgotten that capitalism was a tool for liberty.

Not to push conspiracy theories, as @someguy01 says, its not some evil plot here in the West, its just sheer incompetence and bureaucratic blunder that's led us here. And I wouldn't call it conspiracy in Russia or China, its simply foreign policy without international morality.

If the US dollar were to default, China would stand to lose billions. They hold the bonds for a large portion of our debt.
I'm really not sure that would matter. China has invested heavily in half the world, and as second largest economy if the US collapsed, they'd be largest despite their losses. Furthermore economic loss is meaningless if it can be passed down. E.g. you think Putin feels sanctions? Hell no. The people of Russia feel sanctions.
China is, has, and will, use slavery. If you have slaves money does not matter internally and as long as their economy is the largest (in the scenario US economy collapsed) it doesn't really matter externally either if it lost billions.

In regards to Russia and China, I feel their leaders world view can be best described with a quote from GOTs Lord Varys:

"He would burn the kingdom if he could be king of the ashes,"

However what they do not want, is all out war, so its a slow long game being played.
 

someguy01

Gold Member
China is, has, and will, use slavery.
And this countries corporations will happily use those slaves to increase their profit margins while at the same time acting like they care about progressive changes in society.
Let us not forget that slavery is also the cornerstone of the US economy. Slave prison labour is still alive and strong. Inmates actually do make license plates here in CO.
 

someguy01

Gold Member
However what they do not want, is all out war, so its a slow long game being played.
This why I and others never considered North Korea and Kim and actual threat. The Chinese would snuff him out in the blink of an eye if he were to interfere with their plans.
 

SVBJECT

Regular Poster
This why I and others never considered North Korea and Kim and actual threat. The Chinese would snuff him out in the blink of an eye if he were to interfere with their plans.
This I can agree with.

And this countries corporations will happily use those slaves to increase their profit margins while at the same time acting like they care about progressive changes in society.
Let us not forget that slavery is also the cornerstone of the US economy. Slave prison labour is still alive and strong. Inmates actually do make license plates here in CO.
This however, I think relies on a lack of clarity over what a slave means. I would take prison and unpaid labour in the US, for a finite period of time with a semblance of proportion to a crime I had been found guilty of by a jury of my peers, over labour camps in China, and anyone who says otherwise, I would suspect are either trying to be a provocative troll, or are simply too ignorant to a valid opinion.

Yes Chinese slavery is good for a lot of company's GPs, but that just gives China another financial monopoly over the US, and West in general.

A major online clothing brand in the UK got in a lot of trouble recently for hiring immigrants and paying under minimum wage and housing them in warehouses. They're argument was "these people want to live here, if we don't do this, we'll have our clothes made in China, and they will not get jobs and either leave, or burden the state."
Not saying I think what they did was okay at all, but it demonstrates the power China has over the market, companies have three choices: 1) go with Chinese Labour, 2) Break the law, or 3) charge more. Charging more will mean the customers in a certain market segment will order online, from China anyway, and the company will fold, potentially.

In regards to unpaid prison labour, to the best of my knowledge, it isn't really done in the UK, and we have a major prison crisis. Shortage of space, shortage of funding, and also attractive to criminals, this drove the Brexit vote from a lot of peoples perspectives here. Doing time in England is a lot easier than half of the countries in Europe, particularly Balkan, Eastern and ex-soviet countries, whose prisons have very low standards of living compared to ours. A lot of criminals came here under freedom of movement, on the grounds they could do the same 'job' with lower risks, sensible move, and I know several people (mostly ex-cops) who cite this as their reason to vote to leave the EU. Of course if old BoJo decides to start building new pyramids to rival Egypts with prison labour, I'd have major issues, but there is something to be said for prison being a punishment.

EDIT: Not to say you, personally, have a lack of clarity over the meaning of slave, but I find in modern discourse, generally, its a word thrown around more than it should be, as is Nazi when used to describe Trump, for instance.
 
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someguy01

Gold Member
with a semblance of proportion to a crime
Therein lies the rub, in America anyway.
We handed out decade long sentences for minor drug possession in the 80s and 90s and we hand out lopsided sentences to those that don't have means for quality legal representation.
I can agree that if the sentences were proportionate to the crime, I also would have no issue with this. Sadly, a lot of times the sentences are highly disproportionate to the crime.
Justice in America, not fair, equal, or blind.
 

bongoman

Junior Member
Any time someone says “the word nazi is being thrown around too much”, they are in favor of rounding up undesirables into camps.
 

bongoman

Junior Member
For all the talk of what crypto is in theory, with terms like Keynesian and fiat etc., the result in practice is just gambling. The values fluctuate wildly and unpredictably, boosted or tanked by vast percentages following a single tweet from musk or other disruptive event. The idea is to ride the wave, buying low and selling high, just like stocks, but unregulated. All the use cases like “I bought x item using bitcoin” are excuses, a beard, a dummy system that props up the actual purposes: gambling, and transferring large amounts of money for crimes against humanity. Gamble all you want, I don’t begrudge anyone their poker games. Just don’t be fooled into thinking you’re not gambling.

Also, bitcoin mining uses a planet-killing amount of electricity. Entire nuclear plants are being directed to support these mining operations. The amount of power they use exceeds most small to medium sized countries. There are some apologists talking about clean crypto, but they’re pulling the same smoke and mirrors as “clean coal” and “carbon offsets”. It’s a shell game where the polluter buys a promissory note from another party who claims they will offset the pollution. The buyer gets to claim they are clean and green, and the seller gets to kick the can down the road indefinitely with no penalty for never actually changing anything.
 

SVBJECT

Regular Poster
Any time someone says “the word nazi is being thrown around too much”, they are in favor of rounding up undesirables into camps.
Excuse me? I've literally just said pretty much those words, so how should I take what you've said apart from you suggesting that that is my view, but to read this into what I've said is so needlessly inappropriate, not to mention way off anything said in this conversation and quite deeply offensive. The whole matter of slavery is equally offensive and I was suggesting, sorry if this wasn't quite so clear, that both words should be used only in terms of actual slavery, or nazi-ism, and not thrown around for anything remotely unpaid, or right wing as is the current trend to do.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
subbing the thread b/c while most of the subject matter is over my head, it is good to see the banter going on...I am learning
 

someguy01

Gold Member
Any time someone says “the word nazi is being thrown around too much”, they are in favor of rounding up undesirables into camps.
That's an awfully broad statement.
The words "slave" and "nazi" are used almost colloquially these days to describe any partially unwanted scenario: "My boss treats me like a slave" "those guys are a bunch of Nazis" and what I believe he was getting at is it devalues the word and softens it's true meaning and nature.
Basically, a lot of people online don't know basic definitions of the words they throw around. They toss out fascist off the cuff without knowing what an actual fascist is. People think Socialism is a form of government and synonymous with Communism when in fact one is a form of economics and the other is a form of government.
You could add dampening to the list as recently discussed in another thread as word that is used improperly.
To label and judge someone simply because they pointed out that some words are used improperly does nothing except to perhaps make you feel superior. It's also why the United States finds itself so divided on every issue.
 

s1212z

Drum Expert
If the US dollar were to default, China would stand to lose billions. They hold the bonds for a large portion of our debt.
$1.07 trillion or roughly 15.5%
Second only to Japan.
Believe it or not, Japan actually surpassed China ~2 years ago. China got up to $1.1 trillion and and has been dropping quite dramatically this past year. Japan on the other hand is now up to $1.3 trillion...I wonder what is going on


As mentioned prior, fiat systems isn't environmentally friendly either; we've perpetuated globalization based on a fixed yuan/dollar....but we also can talk about drums on the internet and play on very cheap Stage Customs so it's not all bad but we've left a very polluted planet in its wake. I think the stress test on crypto is over, now world markets now have to deal with it.

It doesn't benefit either party to disturb the yuan/dollar balance, much like why percentage head on collisions in cross traffic is low risk as a lose/lose scenario. But who wants to get paid in a crappy currency? Mainland is in a bind trying to prevent cryptos from spreading...it ends up being a US problem as well. For something that is so small of a market right now, there appears to be a global scramble on how to deal with this. Its also a threat to a pegged dollar to oil...I'm sure many smaller countries are sick of this as well....time to break out the US military again I'm sure, no wonder we left all our toys in Afghanistan in mad dash haphazardly...perhaps a premonition of bigger fish to fry coming soon.
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
...the result in practice is just gambling.
Well, in theory would you do anything to reduce the loss of value when the currency of your choice weakens against other currencies?
 

Otto

Platinum Member
How many stable qbits are we away from being able to mass release the full set of BitCoins?...only A.I. will tell....and anyone who profits.

Fiat currency gives me the willies...as does a process of determining wealth that is so complex the average person struggles to understand it.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Fiat currency gives me the willies...as does a process of determining wealth that is so complex the average person struggles to understand it.
Sorta how I feel about this whole thread. I got lost on page 1 and it isn't getting any clearer! Some of us are just dense I guess... :(
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
Sorta how I feel about this whole thread. I got lost on page 1 and it isn't getting any clearer! Some of us are just dense I guess... :(
Grab a few beers (or whatever you prefer) and watch this oldie but goodie. It's rudimentary but complete (47 minutes):

 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
That's an awfully broad statement.
The words "slave" and "nazi" are used almost colloquially these days to describe any partially unwanted scenario: "My boss treats me like a slave" "those guys are a bunch of Nazis" and what I believe he was getting at is it devalues the word and softens it's true meaning and nature.
Basically, a lot of people online don't know basic definitions of the words they throw around. They toss out fascist off the cuff without knowing what an actual fascist is. People think Socialism is a form of government and synonymous with Communism when in fact one is a form of economics and the other is a form of government.

You could add dampening to the list as recently discussed in another thread as word that is used improperly.
To label and judge someone simply because they pointed out that some words are used improperly does nothing except to perhaps make you feel superior. It's also why the United States finds itself so divided on every issue.

total....church....and a HUGE crux of the problems of the last 10 years here in America...huge
 
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