Back at it (working on blast beats plus double kick)

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Derek Roddy has a video saying, get in there in regards to developing speed. Just go for it, he says. His approach was different from the methodical one of increasing increments. Not sure I agree but I try it still and learned something about my limitations. With his approach, f you have the basic ability for speed you just have to focus on timing and proper separation. Don't practice chit. It won't hurt you.

My weak side wants to elongate my foot by going heel up and pushing my big toe to the pedal to keep up instead of flat footing it more. That showed how much I need to train the weak one.

My personal comfort zone is about 135-140 bpm 8ths without ankle technique and then 175-180 using ankle is achievable soon. My limitation becomes the weak ankle and it starts going heel up. Right side can go 200 easily.

I learned my body better by chasing his recommendation. The decision becomes adjusting my technique or giving in to heel up and using pressure technique on the left. I prefer fixing the weakness instead. I may eventually try the straight leg hip flexor technique because my knees ache.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
The idea of practicing slow to go fast doesnt really work here. It gets you the motions, but not the speed or control at speed.

The only way to successfully go fast is to do it. No metal drummer ever learned to play a 2 hour show by practicing lounge music.

Drumming is the only activity where its participants dont seem to understand this concept. If you can only do 32nds at 100bpm for 5 seconds you arent fast. Do it for a minute straight, you are getting there. Play a show without being gassed, you are there.
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Yqou'll find videos of successful, recorded drummers giving advice counter to other successful and unsuccessful drummers.
One guy says use ankle weights but most don't. Some say practice technique by pretending to bounce a ball with your foot while sitting in a chair. "Don't use hip flexor", then the Archspire drummer says he is almost all hip flexor while being near the pinnacle of performance.

Listen to them all. Use what works. Use what works now while never stopping the reworking of what you're doing. Because right now isn't the goal. When you achieve a step use look for improvement and use what works then. The approach will probably change as you develop. Roddy is an example of making right now work, but most people would prefer to have near identical leg and ankle technique.

You'll get people speaking as the authority, but they are the authority over what worked for them and where they are currently. When you're green you don't have the perspective that you will have if you develop. 32nds at 100 bpm isn't slow. You can work as a metal drummer with someone and continue to develop. Stay with it and listen to positive reinforcement. Ignore the negative unless it motivates you. Fast is always fast. Stamina is stamina. Totally different.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
32nds at 100 bpm isn't slow.
No, it certainly isn't. Five seconds is a burst however. In the metal world, that means nothing. Anyone can force out a handful of singles for a few seconds. You have to be able to do it for long periods of time. Going slow wont get you there. To be able to actually play something other than a burst of 32nds at 100bpm, you have to practice those 32nds at 100bpm for some time. This stuff doesnt just magically happen.

The bad ass metal drummers we all want to be like, they practice what they need to do to. That is the secret, practice what you want to be able to do. Hell it's not even a secret.
 

toddmc

Gold Member
The bad ass metal drummers we all want to be like, they practice what they need to do to. That is the secret, practice what you want to be able to do. Hell it's not even a secret.
Best advice yet (y)
For me personally it's about wanting to play any particular song I'm into- you need to practice a certain skill set to do it.
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Oh, okay so you just aren't supposed to participate in metal or play in a metal band until you pass some test that someone on the internet decides on. Got it.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
Oh, okay so you just aren't supposed to participate in metal or play in a metal band until you pass some test that someone on the internet decides on. Got it.
Do you even understand the point of this thread? It's about building speed and endurance with hands and feet to be a better metal drummer. No one said anything about not joining a band. Except you that is.

If you dont push your speed, you wont get any faster. Does that make more sense?
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Do you even understand the point of this thread? It's about building speed and endurance with hands and feet to be a better metal drummer. No one said anything about not joining a band. Except you that is.

If you dont push your speed, you wont get any faster. Does that make more sense?

You don't seem to be able to understand the point yourself. Everything I posted was framed within developing speed and endurance.
You're bending on negativism. A drummer doesn't qualify if you can't blah-blah-blah.
I'm approaching from the positive. because you aren't born being capable of extreme metal.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
You're bending on negativism. A drummer doesn't qualify if you can't blah-blah-blah.
Please go back and find where I said this.

If you cant play a song, how do you expect to play it without practicing what you cant do?

Tell you what. I'm 30 years into this. I've been down the "how do I go faster longer" road. You can either try what I've suggested or not. I'm not going to argue with you.
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Please go back and find where I said this.

If you cant play a song, how do you expect to play it without practicing what you cant do?

Tell you what. I'm 30 years into this. I've been down the "how do I go faster longer" road. You can either try what I've suggested or not. I'm not going to argue with you.

You said 5 seconds of 32nds at 100 npm isn't fast. Yeah, it kinda is to the normal drummer. You said anyone can do it. No, they can't. You said people don't consider that only drumming is they way you build. No, actually they do know drumming does it, but they also want to know if there are ADDITIONAL things they can do. Are you nearly 60 and losing muscle mass at a dramatic rate?
How am I going to play a song? If it's my song I can play it. If it's my band's song, I can play it. Simple.

I don't think you consider these are negative statements that you're making. Negative isn't fun for most people. I don't know your personal world and you're obviously going to be who you are, so whatever.
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Everything was in context until I said it, I see. You later said it isn't slow. Yeah, you aren't realizing still. You won't.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
The idea of practicing slow to go fast doesnt really work here. It gets you the motions, but not the speed or control at speed.

I think what people - in MANY of the threads where this type of practice is suggested - forget to mention that you start slow, and then slowly speed up to a threshold tempo where your muscles give out. You keep doing this and then the muscles get stronger/more agile, and that develops speed.

and you might already have put this together, but it just sparked my mind reading this thread that a lot of people skip explaining that part of the process

 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
I think what people - in MANY of the threads where this type of practice is suggested - forget to mention that you start slow, and then slowly speed up to a threshold tempo where your muscles give out. You keep doing this and then the muscles get stronger/more agile, and that develops speed.

and you might already have put this together, but it just sparked my mind reading this thread that a lot of people skip explaining that part of the process
Maybe so. I am not a teacher for this exact reason.

I'm the person who will tell you to start the car but forgets to tell you to insert the key. I know it should be a given, but apparently isnt.

I do stand by you cant go fast if you dont work on it however.
 

1 hit wonder

Well-known Member
Maybe so. I am not a teacher for this exact reason.

I'm the person who will tell you to start the car but forgets to tell you to insert the key. I know it should be a given, but apparently isnt.

I do stand by you cant go fast if you dont work on it however.

This discussion is important to future and current readers.
That was why I posted about Derek Roddy. He said just go for it. Don't worship the start slow stuff. He was one of the touchstone people to inspire a lot of others on double bass playing and made a.lot of recordings, so....

For most of us, your point is good. The point I made was you'll find highly successful, PAID people telling you the opposite advice (and also the same advice) given on forums. Listen to them all. Use what works for you.

If you're a fast twitch person already, you probably can progress quicker than most.
 

doggyd69b

Silver Member
Hail forum.

I've been restarting my practice, playing relaxed, staying loose, and keeping on the click.

My max speeds are at 150 bpm or so, for both double kick and blast beats. I have no idea how I could muscle out faster speeds earlier, but it happened a year or two back. Currently working on the movements, trying to incorporate fingers, and keeping a loose hold on the sticks. I've had numerous breaks from practice due to not focusing on this 100%.

I suppose I'll work on relaxed playing and practice like it, adding one bpm to exercises when feeling confident in a practice session. I also need to pick up new songs (Velvet Revolver is cool!) and listen to more music.

Now I've been doing 20 minutes of finger control (strength exercise, 8th notes with one finger only, switching fingers every eight strokes, 60bpm), 5 to 15 minutes of double kick practice, doing stints at 115 to 135 bpm at a time. Really simple routine, still aiming at playing hardcore, metalcore and death metal eventually.
Look at guys such as David Diepold, even though he plays at insane speeds he mostly looks relaxed, I said mostly because there are a couple of times I have seen him struggle a little which proves he is indeed human. The point being playing relaxed is achieved after training, if you play tense, you will never last long and you might get injured...
 
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