4 piece vs 5 piece kits

basset52 said:
It depends on the type of music played - our band plays 50's 60's and 70's songs that don't require big fills etc. My 1 up 1 down snare and kick do just fine for those. Less gear for me to carry.
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I hear you with the 50's and 60's stuff... not so much with the 70's - the very era that multi-tom sets became mainstream. Throughout the 70's, I wouldn't have been able to imagine showing up to a session or a gig with anything less than 3 or 4 toms. :)
 
Bo Eder said:
When you say “creativity”, do you mean utilizing the two or three voices in a rhythmic pattern to make the music more, or do you just mean creativity in your fills (that aren’t really necessary)?

And of course, this is all after you’re taking care of business in the “keeping time for the music” department.
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I think what people mean is that if you're going to get relatively busy on a smaller kit, the limited nature of the setup compels you to be more inventive.
 
I played a 5-piece Rogers for years. Then I had a car accident on the way to a gig. It's wasn't serious but the impact broke a tom attachment. So I had to play the night with a 4-piece.

I never got the attachment fixed because I enjoyed having fewer items to lug. Still, there were times when I found losing that extra tom to be a bit limiting, but an improvement when we were set up in small spaces.
 
In a basic 3 minute rock song at 120 bpm, your bass drum is used at least 180 times, your snare at least 180 times, hihat or ride about 720 times (....at least playing 8ths). These 4 components are the soul and essence of the kit. Whether you have 2 versus 3 toms is only about what you do in the fills and flourishes for the remainder of the song.....just icing on cake.....and not much difference in creativity comparing 2 or 3 there. You could play much of a song without them. Of course one can also fill with snare and bass alone too.
 
alparrott said:
I normally have a timbale to my left
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What/when do you generally use it for? Specific songs/fills?

Out of Round said:
I like a one up/two down config for a 5-piece. I want thunderous creativity.
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I envy those who can make use of two floor toms. I'm not sure I was flexible enough in my youth to do so properly -- turning to the side like that has never felt natural to me, to my disappointment -- and I know for sure I ain't now.
 
With my 6 piece Signia kit two up two down I didn't really play more but the 10 12 14 16 voices were in my subconscience. I've only thus far sat in on a 4 piece and of course those voices were gone. It was lonely at first but I liked my focus or abstinence. It was oddly more who I wanted to be.
 
GretschedHive said:
What/when do you generally use it for? Specific songs/fills?
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It is specifically used for certain songs: "Hotel California", "Margaritaville", "Low Rider" and "Smooth" with cover bands, and many many songs with my alt-Latin-punk-ska-folk-whatever originals band. It also stands in for a high tom on songs that seem to need more than three toms.

 
GretschedHive said:
What/when do you generally use it for? Specific songs/fills?



I envy those who can make use of two floor toms. I'm not sure I was flexible enough in my youth to do so properly -- turning to the side like that has never felt natural to me, to my disappointment -- and I know for sure I ain't now.
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Damn skippy!
 
5 piece doesn't promote creativity any less than 4 piece - just think of it as a 4-piece, plus an auxillary drum.
I feel like more drums is better suited to pre-written music, requiring more delicate orchestration. Less drums can facilitate more spontaneous, ad lib playing. I'd like to have the options of a larger kit, but only play or bring the drums required by the music. Like a shell bank.
 
dcrigger said:
I hear you with the 50's and 60's stuff... not so much with the 70's - the very era that multi-tom sets became mainstream. Throughout the 70's, I wouldn't have been able to imagine showing up to a session or a gig with anything less than 3 or 4 toms. :)
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Don’t generally disagree with you but our band plays early 70’s songs like Sweet Caroline , CCR , Lola etc - probably before the multiple Tom thing started.
 
basset52 said:
Don’t generally disagree with you but our band plays early 70’s songs like Sweet Caroline , CCR , Lola etc - probably before the multiple Tom thing started.
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Not really disagreeing much at all.... with that clarification of the 70's material your band focuses on, your choice makes all the sense in the world.

I tend to think of the 60's as two halves... but the 70's lends itself to more subsets than just two. Popular music really went through lots of changes in those 10 years IMO.
 
Iristone said:
5 piece doesn't promote creativity any less than 4 piece - just think of it as a 4-piece, plus an auxillary drum.
I feel like more drums is better suited to pre-written music, requiring more delicate orchestration. Less drums can facilitate more spontaneous, ad lib playing. I'd like to have the options of a larger kit, but only play or bring the drums required by the music. Like a shell bank.
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Again I think it just boils down to what a player considers their home base - their basic tool kit.

Lots of guys are at home base with a 4 piece - and see that tom as something added.

While others, like myself, sit at a 4 piece and feel like I'm sitting at a kit missing a piece.... like opening my toolbox and finding I have brought a crescent wrench. Now the job at hand may not need a crescent wrench, but it just makes me uncomfortable knowing that it's not there, if I need it.

And personally I play both a lot of scored, written music as well as lots totally ad lib stuff (pop, rock, but also weird jazz, etc) - and it's easier for me to play both on a 5 piece - for no other reason, than that is what I'm most comfortable sitting behind. It is there that I either most able to close my eyes and play... or glue my eyes to a chart - while knowing that everything is right where I'm used to it being.

This "home base" doesn't seem to be a big deal for some players... but others it seems like it may be. I can't help noticing the number of players that play in a wide variety of styles and settings - settings that would suggest setting up different kits for each different settings - that stick with the same basic set-up from gig to gig - no matter how different gig maybe. Gadd and Vinnie most prominently come to mind. They seem to have "their instrument", configured how they are used to - that they then go out and play all sorts of different gigs with.

All boiling down to basically... there are no rules with this... it is pretty much, simply... what ever works.
 
I’m playing a 5 piece kit for a musical this week, and I can’t get comfortable with the ride cymbal. Seems so far around to the right.
Most of my rock gigs are 4 piece with the ride in front of my tight shoulder. Much more comfortable.
 
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Morrisman said:
I’m playing a 5 piece kit for a musical thisweek, and I can’t get comfortable with the ride cymbal. Seems so far around to the right.
Most of my rick gigs are 4 piece with the ride in front of my tight shoulder. Much more comfortable.
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Same here. The two things I dislike about ride cymbal placement are not in front of me enough or too high. I have no desire to let the blood drain out of my arm so I can have more drums. I tried as big as an 9 pc when I got wild one day and set up every tom and the two snares I have, and I hated it. Everything except the main snare and bass drum became an exercise in compromise. With the 1 up 1 down, everything is right there where I like it. Plus I don’t have to make two trips with the cart.
 
JimmyM said:
Same here. The two things I dislike about ride cymbal placement are not in front of me enough or too high. I have no desire to let the blood drain out of my arm so I can have more drums. I tried as big as an 9 pc when I got wild one day and set up every tom and the two snares I have, and I hated it. Everything except the main snare and bass drum became an exercise in compromise. With the 1 up 1 down, everything is right there where I like it. Plus I don’t have to make two trips with the cart.
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There are four reasons why I like 4-piece.

1. Better positioning of ride cymbal.
2. Less gear to carry.
3. Slightly smaller footprint on stage.
4. My fills usually don't require a 3rd tom.

That said.... I recently played a friend's 5 piece kit (2 up 1 down) and kinda liked it. I might set up my own kit like that just to play around.
 
A small, one up/one down, kit is better for a dope like me. Fewer options eliminates the temptation to get silly with fills. Set up and tear down is easier. Like others have mentioned, getting the ride cymbal placed in a comfortable spot is easier with a 4pc kit. If I were to add an extra drum, it would most likely be a second floor tom.
 
fewer rooms to add a second floor tom
second floor tom needs guaranteed room (lol)
not always a guarantee
 
When I play my 13, 16, 24 CM's, I can handle just about anything.


However, when I add on the 18" floor tom, I can rule the world.

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