Goals for Beginner Drummers

Bozozoid said:
At one point using a metronome (Mr. Click) CD my time slowly improved. I mean (improved) not perfected 😃. Then I see this video by Larrie Londin where he talked about playing in front..on..and behind the beat concerning verse chorus bridge and I thought crap! I'm getting better now this!?..brain! drain. It was like back to square one again. Help Mr. Wizard...i don't want to be a drummer now. Drizzle drazzle drizzle drome time for this one to come home 😨.
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yeah...no one will ever perfect time...and Larrie's video is sort of about that: how you let time breathe. But that is different than having no sense of time....AND you have to understand pulse and subdivision in order to manipulate ahead or behind the pulse

and rest assured that many drummers don't actively work on those abilities, but it can still happen. That is where taking the work you do with a met and then playing with others combine. I can play ahead of, or behind the met pretty well, but it feels mechanical. When i play with my bands, that shift is easier to do b/c I am more absorbed in the space that the other members are creating, and then living in that. I will think to my self 'hmm, we are behind the beat a bit", but I don't dwell on it.

To me, that is what I describe as "Phat"...usually happens for me in funk, or Latin kind of feels...and when I play old school swing with brushes

ahead of the beat happens more with angsty punk, and sometimes musical "oom pah" beats

so don';t worry so much about forcing that to happen..it will come with time
 
Bozozoid said:
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX....stand closer young man while I bite your neck and drain this practice thing from you. Stand still while you become me and I become you. 😃. I to want to wake up becoming Vinnie Colaiuta now...and not in 2034. 😃.
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ooooh...a blood ritual. I am in!!! :devilish:

and you will more likely become Neil Peart, Scott Rockenfield, Jeff Nelson, Joe Morello, Nicko McBrain, Tim Alexander or Omar Hakim if you bite me
 
doggyd69b said:
Tell that to Lars Ulrich (I believe him to be the highest paid drummer in history based on how much he has made to this day). He also crashes in between measures and all over, but yet somehow he always returns to the groove so he IS doing something right.
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Yeah, I get it. Everyone likes something different. That's why I put smiley face. If you like to crash a lot, more power to you. It's not for me. And I don't make money like Lars... so my opinion is just that. But I can have one.
 
Regarding beginners and metronomes, I'm going to take the totally contrarian view....

Beginners are saddled with two very important things - trying to function with zero or near zero facility and trying to start developing a sense of what rhythm is all about.

Tempo is only one aspect of rhythm. Probably more fundamental is the concept how music is made up of layered rhythmic ideas (beats and rest of various lengths) components that all come together into a single rhythmic fabric.... sort of like a grid.... But as much as we modern drummers like to see that grid as fixed to one tempo - the history of all music shows that it is indeed quite flexible.... tempo-wise.

So IMO while struggling (even at a pad) to tap a foot on each beat, count, and play a different rhythm (even if it is just 1/4's and 1/4 rests) - all while focusing on grip, on the stroke - and maintaining some order consistency. Not just in tempo - but in volume, stick positioning - all of this new stuff.

The very last thing a beginner needs is to have confront the brutal unforgiving nature of the metronome. Downstream - sure. But right away - absolutely not. And IMO not for a good long time.

I say get some rhythmic confidence under their belt and a bit of technical control - before harping on tempo.

Plus starting the metronome too early - just short-circuits their ability to develop an ear for consistent tempo. They stop evaluating their self-timing - and instead just focus on "staying with the metronome" - even if that ends up creating all sort of bad internal habits - particularly that of rubber banding (constantly chasing the metronome up and down - never actually locking in their entire grid - not just their 1/4 notes.

Does this mean I'm anti-metronome? Heavens no. It's an incredible tool.... but it does not teach someone to have great control of rhythm... IMO it's best for taking the rhythmic ability a student has and focus in on tempo consistency. IMO you just can't start there. Even today - if I need to work on a new rhythmic pattern or idea - I don't start with the metronome on. I need the space to tug and pull, as I get a handle on this new thing. Then once I can play it consistently by my ears - I'll turn on the metronome to work out where it still needs work.

My two cents...
 
dcrigger said:
Regarding beginners and metronomes, I'm going to take the totally contrarian view....

Beginners are saddled with two very important things - trying to function with zero or near zero facility and trying to start developing a sense of what rhythm is all about.

Tempo is only one aspect of rhythm. Probably more fundamental is the concept how music is made up of layered rhythmic ideas (beats and rest of various lengths) components that all come together into a single rhythmic fabric.... sort of like a grid.... But as much as we modern drummers like to see that grid as fixed to one tempo - the history of all music shows that it is indeed quite flexible.... tempo-wise.

So IMO while struggling (even at a pad) to tap a foot on each beat, count, and play a different rhythm (even if it is just 1/4's and 1/4 rests) - all while focusing on grip, on the stroke - and maintaining some order consistency. Not just in tempo - but in volume, stick positioning - all of this new stuff.

The very last thing a beginner needs is to have confront the brutal unforgiving nature of the metronome. Downstream - sure. But right away - absolutely not. And IMO not for a good long time.

I say get some rhythmic confidence under their belt and a bit of technical control - before harping on tempo.

Plus starting the metronome too early - just short-circuits their ability to develop an ear for consistent tempo. They stop evaluating their self-timing - and instead just focus on "staying with the metronome" - even if that ends up creating all sort of bad internal habits - particularly that of rubber banding (constantly chasing the metronome up and down - never actually locking in their entire grid - not just their 1/4 notes.

Does this mean I'm anti-metronome? Heavens no. It's an incredible tool.... but it does not teach someone to have great control of rhythm... IMO it's best for taking the rhythmic ability a student has and focus in on tempo consistency. IMO you just can't start there. Even today - if I need to work on a new rhythmic pattern or idea - I don't start with the metronome on. I need the space to tug and pull, as I get a handle on this new thing. Then once I can play it consistently by my ears - I'll turn on the metronome to work out where it still needs work.

My two cents...
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I totally agree,

except for the metronome being described as "brutal and unforgiving"...the met will be perceived however we teach them to perceive it. None of my students see the met as being brutal and unforgiving. The way I use it, it is actual the tool that helps them learn to relax and fit the information onto (into?) the fabric that you mentioned above (I love that analogy)

and you are right, it does not teach all of the elements of having great rhythm, but it does - at least to me - lay the foundation of the pulse that the rhythm happens on. It is the loom that weaves the fabric together

I think it is also becadsue I don't teach my kids to learn by hearing. They learn to read by placing subdivisions on the pulse, and then they "ear" that when it is fitting on the pulse correctly. Again, not bashing the way you do it, but just wanted to throw rthat out there becasue it gives context to where I am coming from
 
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Find a dedicated place to practice without hassles or any distractions. That could be an achievement for some.
 
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Doraemon said:
Not quitting.
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EXACTLY!!

Everything else flows from here....even if it takes a lifetime...or longer.

Enduring boredom, plateaus, injury, losses, gains, ego inflation/deflation, losing a gig, being unable to find a gig, losing faith in beauty, and even happiness/satisfaction.

'Swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human'
 
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