Soundguys ever complain about your unported kick?

Kodeus said:
A competent sound engineer (Studio or live) will not say anything about it to you because they know that it is your gear and it is probably like that for a reason. They also know how to properly mic a bass drum in either fashion. A self conscious sound engineer will not let you hear the end of it because it is out of their comfort zone and they have yet to realize that they are not the one to make that decision. All they need to do is figure out how to reinforce the sound that the drummer wants.
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this is all true. I learned that my job as a sound guy was to put a mic where it would recreate the best sound...and also to work with the musicians. It was NOT my job to tell them what I thought unless asked first. I knew the parameters of the venue I was in, and tried to fit the situation as best I can.

there are many times where I really, really want to do a simple tune on peoples stuff, or give them a better cabinet or head, but you cant' do that all the time.
 
Our last sound guy insisted I use a ported reso head. I complied. The new sound guy is fine either way, so I opt for a solid reso head.
 
jeffwj said:
Never had them complain about that. I found that you do need to tell the sound guy if you will be playing the bass drum dynamically. I played an outdoor corporate gig with a jazz big band. It was in Vegas, so it was all backend equipment supplied by the sound company. I guess we didn’t soundcheck long due to scheduling (and the crowd already arriving) so we probably played a few bars and got offstage. The first tune was mainly feathered bass drum, with the exception of a few ensemble hits. There were these techno-like (extremely loud) sounds coming out of the system. We assumed that the bass trombone player’s mic was acting up.

We then played a Latin tune with a songo-like pattern. It was then that I realized the sound guy assumed that my feathering was my standard volume. Every time I played a normal stroke, it distorted the entire system.

I had another similar situation playing a casino with an act I never worked with before. Sinatra tunes - lots of feathered bass drum. The sound guys raised the feathering up to a rock bass drum volume. At the soundcheck/rehearsal the singer stopped and said, “Drummer, this is jazz - not rock.” I did not want to sound like I was blaming the sound guy, so I just tapped the bass drum with my fingers. The sound echoed through the house. The singer then turned his attention to the sound guy.

So when it comes to the bass drum, always be sure to tell the sound guy if you will be playing a wide dynamic range.

Jeff
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This is hugely relevant to anyone playing a wide dynamic range on bass drum, whether ported or not, but even more important on an unported bass drum..

The biggest issue I encounter is gating. Most sound techs will slap gates on just about anything, & I’ve often heard my bass drum completely drop out when feathering or playing grace notes. I now always have that conversation with the sound tech before the performance.

As for playing unported in a sound reinforcement scenario, I prefer the two mic approach to internal. One on the batter & one on the reso. On such occasions, I carry mic’s & stands specifically for that application to make life easier for everyone.
 
Or maybe use the appropriate bass drum set up for the music and for the venue you are playing.
There are many instances where an unported bass drum works well.
99% of rock, pop, funk etc is recorded with ported bass drums, and many live venues suffer from a long reverb accentuating low resonance.
Saying it's the sound person's job to sort it out is like giving a chef hamburger meat and asking them to make Chicken Wings.
It's a collaboration. I try to work with the sound team because the majority of the time we're working towards the same goal - making the band sound as good as possible.
 
Chris Whitten said:
The problem is the drummer is never out front listening through the PA, even less so with the whole band playing, and never during the show with the audience in.
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Knowing how best to set up your kit for a variety of playing contexts is a skill in itself. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve encountered kits presented in a totally unsuitable condition, even at the most basic level.
 
Andy said:
Knowing how best to set up your kit for a variety of playing contexts is a skill in itself. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve encountered kits presented in a totally unsuitable condition, even at the most basic level.
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man, this is more often the case than not at the weekend warrior, local bar level. For all of the instruments, not just the drums
 
All the time! I usually tell them to place it a little further away than normal, and about halfway in-between the center and the hoop. I'm amazed at how something like an unported reso head throws a sound guy They usually stop in thier tracks! If that's the biggest issue you have all night, you're probably doing just fine.

When I recorded a full album with my now defunct band about 10 years ago, the engineer, who was known to the band in our musical circle and generally a good guy, wanted me to take the front head off of the bass drum (unported). I refused. We went back and forth for at least 15 minutes while I was setting up my gear. Each back and forth got slightly more contentious and stern. He eventually said to me: "Well, that's the best way to get a sound of a bass drum". My reply, and this is one of my biggest "prima donna" moments ever (thankfully I have very few; I'm a pretty agreeable guy). I told him, "It's YOUR responsibility to capture MY sound. It's not MY responsibility to capture YOUR sound". (Gotta be honest, that felt SOOO good). I added "Why aren't you willing to try something new"?. He very begrudgingly relented (we were paying him after all!) and he ended up putting the mic about 5 feet in front of the bass drum.

As we were mixing down the tracks, he turned to me and said, "You know, that's the best bass drum sound I have EVER gotten at this studio". It took all of my restraint to not wring his neck on the spot!
 
It worked out for you. That's good.
Me..... I would be saying "let's try it my way and if it doesn't work out we'll quickly switch to your way".
Again, for me it's a collaboration, not a dictatorship.
The first few sessions I did when I was 22 or 23 were a disaster. No one is born understanding professional level drum sounds and the art of recording. Every session I did in my early years I picked the brain of the recording engineer and the producer, trying to learn and improve.
Generally drummers in bands are recording once or twice a year, recording engineers are recording kits every week. Yes, they can get stuck in a rut, but they also have A LOT more experience than the drummer generally.
Same goes for FOH. The drummer never hears their kit in the PA in the middle of a loud gig. You can't hear it in the soundcheck the same way the front of house person hears it.
 
Chris Whitten said:
The problem is the drummer is never out front listening through the PA, even less so with the whole band playing, and never during the show with the audience in.
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It's really handy if one band member is able to play a few basic beats on the drums.

At least you can go out front and have a listen.

It gives you a totally different perspective on the sound of your kit.
 
I totally agree. The only issue is that they rarely hit the same way as you (the drummer) so it gives you some perspective but not 100% true perspective. But yes, better than nothing. You can hear if there are any annoying frequencies, or if the FOH are aggressively gating the drums.
The other thing is the sound usually radically changes from soundcheck to gig. With any long boom heard during soundcheck, disappearing into a sea of bodies at the gig.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
Those of you who gig with an unported kick, ever had any techs complain about it? How did you resolve it?
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I noticed on your new Ludwig kit you had a port covering on the fiberskyn front...then I saw had something similar in their pic. What is that? Can you go back and forth on a open/close port hole?
 
s1212z said:
I noticed on your new Ludwig kit you had a port covering on the fiberskyn front...then I saw had something similar in their pic. What is that? Can you go back and forth on a open/close port hole?
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If you can open and close a port hole, that's a new one on me...

Sounds like a cool idea though!
 
Chris Whitten said:
I totally agree. The only issue is that they rarely hit the same way as you (the drummer) so it gives you some perspective but not 100% true perspective. But yes, better than nothing. You can hear if there are any annoying frequencies, or if the FOH are aggressively gating the drums.
The other thing is the sound usually radically changes from soundcheck to gig. With any long boom heard during soundcheck, disappearing into a sea of bodies at the gig.
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Evidently I kick a little harder than a majority of players that I've seen around here.
 
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