Pat Benatar - Heartbreaker... Can someone help me with the tricky part in the bridge, measures 3 & 4?

timmdrum

Gold Member
At first, i thought it was a 3-over-4 polyrhythm through those 2 measures, but that would resolve on the & of 4 in measure four... I *think* I've sussed out that, from the crash on 1 in measure 3 to the crash on 1 in measure five, the crashes land on counts 1, (2)&, **(4)&**, 2, (3)&, and 1...? That would mean the polyrhythm really only starts with that (4)& crash, right? o_O Please check behind me! :) The section begins at 1:41 (I don't know how to mark the timeline so that it automatically starts at a given point).

 
Looking at Terry's transcription, there is a device sometimes called an "odd grouping" starting on beat 4 of the first measure.
As we know, 8th notes in 4/4 time naturally fall into little sets of 2. In contrast to that, the drummer is repeatedly playing a phrase that is actually 3 8th notes long. His phrase is SNARE - CRASH/BASS - SILENCE.
I hope this helps.
 
Looking at Terry's transcription, there is a device sometimes called an "odd grouping" starting on beat 4 of the first measure.
As we know, 8th notes in 4/4 time naturally fall into little sets of 2. In contrast to that, the drummer is repeatedly playing a phrase that is actually 3 8th notes long. His phrase is SNARE - CRASH/BASS - SILENCE.
I hope this helps.
Exactly. It is a three note cross rhythm. The tricky part is this - it doesn’t start on count one. As you mentioned, it starts on count 4.

Jeff
 
Hey fellers.....I played this in bars and restaurants when the song was new.
I checked out a music notation app to write this and.......... it was just...OK.
These be the accents in 4/4 time. No odd time signatures.
Just your basic hemiolas/subdivisions over the bar.
Over the bar....that is where it gets tricky....Like when Chick Corea does it.
Or John McGlaughlin and Herbie.....AND Glenn Miller....you right Dave Crigger.
Read and play Big Band charts and this rock stuff will seem pretty simple.
Hey didn't Don Ellis have some difficult charts with some severe hemiola action?....Mr. Crigger you was there? right?
 

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Hey fellers.....I played this in bars and restaurants when the song was new.
I checked out a music notation app to write this and.......... it was just...OK.
These be the accents in 4/4 time. No odd time signatures.
Just your basic hemiolas/subdivisions over the bar.
Over the bar....that is where it gets tricky....Like when Chick Corea does it.
Or John McGlaughlin and Herbie.
Corea? McLaughlin? More like Glenn Miller...

Simply put - these are basic 1/8th note syncopations....

You're right - there's no odd groupings... no odd phrases... different meters... even the "over the bar line" has been commonplace for 80 years... again just basic syncopated 1/8th note rhythms... "pushes".... anticipations... And a perfect example of why many of us talk about rock drumming and jazz drumming being more the same than they are different.

After boom-pap-boom-boom-pap - the meat and potatoes of drumming is 1/8th syncopations (and by extension 16ths, when twice as fast).... You can readily find rhythmic sections just like in the swing music if the 40's - actually the most generic, popular swing music of the 40's - Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, etc...

For any that struggles with sections like these - or are confused by them - I can't suggest strongly enough getting a copy of Ted Reed's book - Syncopation - but way more importantly learn to play some swing music.... getting versed on how to play these "shout chorus" type sections will 100% translate in how to deal with them in a rock context.

IMO being able to "catch the accents" in any style is an absolute essential musical skill for every drummer.
 
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