What are considered "cheap" cymbals?

Blimey. Some strong opinions about B8 being inferior here. What really matters isn't just the chemical makeup of the bronze but the way in which a cymbal is manufactured. If that was the case then all B20 cymbals would all be better than all B10 cymbals which would in turn be better than all B8 cymbals. All of which is predicated on a person's personal opinion of what "better" is, a Zildjian K and a Paiste Rude are very different cymbals that equally wouldn't work in certain settings but neither of which you can reasonably call a "bad" cymbal.
Paiste's mainstay for donkey's years has been their B8 alloy.
I've been gigging for many years with a set of Paiste Alpha Pro crash cymbals (now discontinued but "broadly similiar" to their current 900 series) a set of Paiste PST8 High Hats and an 80s/90s Meinl Raker Ride Cymbal, again B8 and made in an attempt to capture some of the Paiste Rude market.
I wouldn't for a second consider any of these cymbals to be "cheap" in quality terms, and personally I baulk at new cymbal prices that sit above £150. Paying top dollar for anything in life doesn't guarantee that it's the perfect choice for a person's particular situation.
 
Not particularly. Though I was quite surprised when I discovered their cymbals aren't B20.

I've played Zildjian for the vast majority of my drumming years (over three decades), but I did, for a time, switch to Paiste, eventually returning to Zildjian As and Ks. When Zildjian released the S Family (B12), I tried and loved them. The S Family is more similar to several Paiste lines than it is to other Zildjian offerings.
 
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I've played Zildjian for the vast majority of my drumming years (over three decades), but I did, for a time, switch to Paiste's Signature Series, which is B12. I liked them a lot but eventually returned to Zildjian As and Ks. When Zildjian released the S Family (B12), I tried and loved them. Now I play the S Family exclusively. The S Family is more similar to Paiste's Signature Series than it is to other Zildjian lines. Perhaps I prefer Paiste cymbals with Zildjian logos.
To be fair I do often wonder if it's my preconceptions about sub-B20 cymbals that affects how I feel about their sound. Even with B20's I have a preference for hand hammered (in most cases). Probably been corrupted by evil capitalism.
 
while checking out the cymbals at guitar center a came across the zildjian s line. i was blown away because the z line was lame. i would have been well satisfied with the a line at $600-$700. the s line was under $400 and not nearly as bright as the z line. i went with another brand but i would recommend giving the s's a listen before you buy cheap cymbals
 
while checking out the cymbals at guitar center a came across the zildjian s line. i was blown away because the z line was lame. i would have been well satisfied with the a line at $600-$700. the s line was under $400 and not nearly as bright as the z line. i went with another brand but i would recommend giving the s's a listen before you buy cheap cymbals
By Z I think you mean Planet Z, they're brass cymbals as opposed to bronze so very much unarguably "starter" cymbals, or as someone described them earlier in this thread, "targets".
The S Line probably falls into what some would call the "cheap cymbals" category which in a roundabout way confirms that cheap cymbals aren't necessarily bad cymbals, they sit only a rung below A Zildjians and they sound good so what's not to like?
 
It´s actually B15. You can see Sigs have a more yellowish tint than the Zildjian S.

As I recall, my Paiste Signatures were B12. Here's a line from a Modern Drummer article on Paiste's Signature and Dark Energy cymbals:

"The Dark Energy subseries, which was originally launched in 2004, utilizes the same B12 alloy as the rest of the Signature series, but these unique-looking cymbals are finished differently so as to produce darker, drier, and meatier tones."

Here's the link to the whole article: https://www.moderndrummer.com/article/august-2019-paiste-product-close-up/

Paiste is fond of terms such as "proprietary bronze." They like to keep their ingredients a secret.
 
The NuVaders (made by Paiste) I got with my Remo Encore kit were junk but they lasted a couple of years. 14" hats, 16" crash and 20" crash/ride. They did open me up to the world of Paiste.
 
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"Usually", cymbals made with B8 bronze (92% copper, 8% tin)--tend to be considered cheaper. B20 bronze (80 percent copper, 20 percent tin) are more expensive, tend to sound better, are more sought after.

Packs aren't bad. Many will prefer hearing cymbals individually. And there are SO MANY used great cymbals out there. You can usually find what you need/want for used/cheaper.
I. A drummer 40 years and didnt know that!

Excellent break down.
 
I. A drummer 40 years and didnt know that!

Excellent break down.
Read the whole thread DB7, it’s not true. The quote marks around the word “usually” go some way towards making this a more acceptable statement but if it was the case then most Paiste cymbals would be worse sounding and cheaper. But sound is subjective so let’s look at it in terms of build quality, again that makes a mockery of the whole B8 v B20 debate.
It’s repeated and unchallenged internet posts where people state as “fact” things that aren’t facts that breed misinformation and result in people who don’t actually know the facts taking them onboard as gospel and spreading them further.
 
What about Meinl's HCS line of cymbals? Cheap? Garbage? Or inexpensive quality?
 
Read the whole thread DB7, it’s not true. The quote marks around the word “usually” go some way towards making this a more acceptable statement but if it was the case then most Paiste cymbals would be worse sounding and cheaper. But sound is subjective so let’s look at it in terms of build quality, again that makes a mockery of the whole B8 v B20 debate.
It’s repeated and unchallenged internet posts where people state as “fact” things that aren’t facts that breed misinformation and result in people who don’t actually know the facts taking them onboard as gospel and spreading them further.
I'm not trying to be a wise guy .....but Paiste Cymbals do sound worse and cheaper to me.?
 
For a beginnes purposes, I guess it will be anything from some metal plates coming with a beginner start up package to the lowest price budget lines of most brands.

Just get real cymbals, stuff that responds like a real instrument and don't buy new if you want to save money and you're just getting your feet wet.. You'll get much better stuff that way.

The right cymbals for you? That's a different matter and a personal journey based on your style and taste.

Packages are great if you don't have any specific tastes yet. You pretty much get one cymbal for free.
 
What about Meinl's HCS line of cymbals? Cheap? Garbage? Or inexpensive quality?

Budget cymbals sound bad because they’re budget cymbals. Find some lesser known brand B20 cymbals and you can come across stuff that’s just as bad and worse as low price cheap second line cymbals from the major manufacturers
 
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