I'm confused by Ludwig's snare lineup

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Darth Vater

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I need some help here. I have a classic maple kit arriving today and I'd like to pick out a nice snare to use with it. I've narrowed my search to a Black Beauty, Copperphonic or the old standard Supra.

What's confusing me is it seems like they come with different lugs, number of lugs, and new or older throw offs. I'm still debating size. Kit sizes are 22x14, 12x8, 13x9, 16x16. Old skool standard sizes. What's difference in articulation between the models and depths? I have a nice Hendrix 14x6.5 Player Stave Maple that I can use with it too so whatever Ludwig snare I get doesn't have to be an all a rounder.

What I do want is 10 imperial lugs per side and the good throw like this one. Not those earlier uh-bor-shuns. Do all the newer models come with this throw? Also, why are there so many "B-stock" Ludwig snares on Reverb and Ebay? Is the QC that bad down there in Monroe, NC? It's troubling to me.

Links appreciated to any suggestions.

Cheers,
TW


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All the new snares come with the pictured strainer above . It is a good strainer , works well and holds its tuning .

B stock is puzzling to me as well . I have inspected quite a few “B” stick snares and on most of them you would be hard pressed to see what makes them a B stock .
If I had to buy just one Ludwig snare , my choice would be the Black Beauty . I have a 5” that John Aldridge engraved and it is a fantastic sounding snare . A huge tuning range . Extremely sensitive when required as well .
 
B-stock means any little issue, even on the inside. So a snare might be cosmetically perfect on the outside, but if there's a nick or discoloration on the inside, it becomes B-stock and sold at a reduced price. Maybe there's a tiny blem visible on the outside, just enough to keep the shell from being 100%. I don't think it's affordable to try and recycle the shells, and I suspect any really bad shells are just tossed or maybe offered to an employee who plays. Don't be concerned about the QC at Ludwig, even with some ups & downs over the years, their snares have always remained excellent.

As for what snare, you cannot go wrong with any of the Supra line-up. The bronze, brass and aluminum all have their characteristics, and the Copperphonic is a nice blend of the best of each (plus a bit of woodiness.) My 6.5x14 is tied for my favorite snare, the other is an 8x14 Black Beauty. I have 112 snares, and to be able to single out two as my faves means they're pretty special. :) I generally prefer a 6.5" snare, so if I absolutely had to pick one, it would be the Copperphonic.

Agreed with Rick P, the new throwoff is nice and smooth, and won't loosen while playing. They did a nice job on it.
 
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Darth Vater said:
I need some help here. I have a classic maple kit arriving today and I'd like to pick out a nice snare to use with it. I've narrowed my search to a Black Beauty, Copperphonic or the old standard Supra.
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Any of these made of a material that you dont already have in a snare? That's the one I'd get.
 
Darth Vater said:
Good info guys. Respect.

If it's made of metal, I don't have it. Right now I'm leaning towards a 5 x 14 Black Beauty but I'm not in a rush. Gonna do my due diligence.
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I see. That's quite a conundrum to have. This nice snare? Or this nice snare? Or maybe this nice snare?
 
Darth Vater said:
Good info guys. Respect.

If it's made of metal, I don't have it. Right now I'm leaning towards a 5 x 14 Black Beauty but I'm not in a rush. Gonna do my due diligence.
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Can't go wrong with a BB either. Since the Copperphonic crosses-over a bit into wood territory, the BB would be sufficiently different (and it's a little less expensive than the copper.)
 
The Supraphonic is bright, airy, and easily controlled, the BB is big, fat, and punchy, and Copperphonic is dark and dry. I can't tell you what you want, but I can tell you that they all sound really great!

And yes, by what I can tell all Ludwig snares have been shipping standard with the P88AC throwoff for at least three years. Still, a P-85 works just fine with a couple drops of 3-In-One Oil. Shallow Acrolites and the specific 8-lug BB and the Dragon's Blood snare are the only drums that come standard with 8 lugs; everything else is 10 lugs.
 
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LM402 is what i chose. i wanted a snare that could play funk, rock, jazz and anything else, and had a sound that is pleasing to absolutely everyone. it seems like aluminium is a good contender for inoffensive sound and 6.5” is a very versatile size. so i went with that. i don’t think i’ll ever need another snare.

as many say, you can make a 6.5 sound like a 5 but you can’t do the opposite

p.s. i bought my supra January 2020 and it came with the P88. good strainer.
 
bermuda said:
Can't go wrong with a BB eityher. Since the Copperphonic crosses-over a bit into wood territory, the BB would be sufficiently different (and it's a little less expensive than the copper.)
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Just got the kit delivered. Been downstairs unboxing. The QC on the toms is fabulous. Really happy. haven't opened the kick box yet. I'll get some photos up once I do.

Yeah, those Copperphonics are kind of pricey! Not a big deal but if they lean toward woody, I'll probably let my wood snares handle that end.
dwsabianguy said:
The Supraphonic is bright, airy, and easily controlled, the BB is big, fat, and punchy, and Copperphonic is dark and dry. I can't tell you what you want, but I can tell you that they all sound really great!

And yes, by what I can tell all Ludwig snares have been shipping standard with the P88AC throwoff for at least three years. Still, a P-85 works just fine with a couple drops of 3-In-One Oil. Shallow Acrolites and the specific 8-lug BB and the Dragon's Blood snare are the only drums that come standard with 8 lugs; everything else is 10 lugs.
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Excellent descriptions and 4-1-1. I think I'll have a scotch tonite and go through some youtube videos Probably going to be between a BB and Supra but I had a Supra for like 30 years. Maybe it's time for something different. Any takes on the bronze Supra?
 
Darth Vater said:
Any takes on the bronze Supra?
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The bronze Supras are getting harder to find, as they have been discontinued by Ludwig. Naturally, the used prices have jumped accordingly. I recently sold two 5x14 bronze Supras (one hammered, one smooth) for roughly what I paid, and I knew that I could have probably held out for a couple more hundred for each drum if I was patient, but I preferred to pass them on for the same deals that I got them for.

I do still have a prototype 6.5x14 Bronze Beauty finished in black chrome (not black nickel) that I absolutely love. Not terribly different than brass, but a bit darker in sound.

Webp.net-resizeimage.jpg

Back to your original question, I think you'd be quite happy with a Black Beauty. And yes, the P-88 strainer is a great strainer.
 
David Hunter said:
The bronze Supras are getting harder to find, as they have been discontinued by Ludwig. Naturally, the used prices have jumped accordingly. I recently sold two 5x14 bronze Supras (one hammered, one smooth) for roughly what I paid, and I knew that I could have probably held out for a couple more hundred for each drum if I was patient, but I preferred to pass them on for the same deals that I got them for.

I do still have a prototype 6.5x14 Bronze Beauty finished in black chrome (not black nickel) that I absolutely love. Not terribly different than brass, but a bit darker in sound.

View attachment 103409

Back to your original question, I think you'd be quite happy with a Black Beauty. And yes, the P-88 strainer is a great strainer.
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Would a 5x 14 BB have enough punch in your opinion? Also, What are these Super Series snares are they down range or just BB's with a different finish? Here's a teaser on the kit. They have quite a blue tint to me. Is that normal or did they give me the wrong color? ?

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Bo Eder said:
What you need is MAPEX SATURN V!!!!
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Been there done that. They aren't bad kits actually. Now stop! I'm channeling Ringo right now. ;)

Anybody..........does the finish on the Black Beauty suffer from the same pitting as the chrome on the Supra? Me hopes not as that's where I'm leaning right now.
 
Darth Vater said:
Would a 5x 14 BB have enough punch in your opinion? Also, What are these Super Series snares are they down range or just BB's with a different finish? Here's a teaser on the kit. They have quite a blue tint to me. Is that normal or did they give me the wrong color? ?

View attachment 103412View attachment 103413
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The super series from what I’ve seen is a CHROME over brass, instead of a black nickel finish. So yeah different finish.
 
RickP said:
All the new snares come with the pictured strainer above . It is a good strainer , works well and holds its tuning .

B stock is puzzling to me as well . I have inspected quite a few “B” stick snares and on most of them you would be hard pressed to see what makes them a B stock .
If I had to buy just one Ludwig snare , my choice would be the Black Beauty . I have a 5” that John Aldridge engraved and it is a fantastic sounding snare . A huge tuning range . Extremely sensitive when required as well .
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Can I just add this on 5"beautys?. One of my ALL TIME favorite snare sounds is Larrie Londons sound on Steve Perry's street talk CD on a tune called Oh Sherrie....WOW. It's a 5x14 b beauty.
 
Darth Vater said:
Would a 5x 14 BB have enough punch in your opinion? Also, What are these Super Series snares are they down range or just BB's with a different finish? Here's a teaser on the kit. They have quite a blue tint to me. Is that normal or did they give me the wrong color? ?
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Absolutely. It has all the headroom you'd need. I have an 8-lug 5x14 BB, and it sounds great. That said, I agree with Bermuda that if I had to choose one over another (5" or 6.5"), I'd also go with a 6.5, just because it has that bit of extra depth and versatility. The old saying goes that you can make a 6.5" sound like a 5" much easier than you can the opposite. (As an aside, I also agree that the 8" BB is a shockingly good snare: it's my favorite of all the current BBs.) But both are beautiful sounding drums, and you can't go wrong either way. If you feel like you've done the aluminum Supra thing, and if the Copperphonic is too close to wood for your needs, the brass BB is the one you'd likely want. Besides, you can always get another Supra down the road. They're everywhere!

Regarding your Vintage Black Oyster finish - I think it's just the lighting. The Blue Oyster looks quite a bit lighter, at least in these stock photos.

Vintage_Black_Oyster.jpgVintage_Blue_Oyster.jpg

Darth Vater said:
Anybody..........does the finish on the Black Beauty suffer from the same pitting as the chrome on the Supra? Me hopes not as that's where I'm leaning right now.
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Nope, it's black nickel on brass, so no pitting like chrome on aluminum. However, the nickel plating on the BBs is extremely thin, so you have to be real careful of scratches. Even look at it funny and it'll scratch. ?
 
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