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  #1  
Old 12-15-2014, 09:20 PM
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Default Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I have been trying to learn some new songs as of late and thought I'd visit Youtube so I could "see" what other drummers are playing as opposed to just listening to the song.

I am really amazed at just how much I'm apparently missing while just listening to the music. While I definitely have the groove and the backbeat down, there are a lot of important nuances that get by me that I am not aware of.

This is definitely eroding my confidence as a drummer.

Is this an issue for any of you as well?
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

mmulcahy1 .. I wouldn't let Youtube be your be all end all. If it brings your confidence level down, get the heck out of there and do something that inspires you!

I post lessons all the time on Youtube. What appears to be a flawless performance is literally hours of practice and good editing. Don't be fooled by what a well edited video can look like .. what it actually took to get there may have taken a month for that drummer to achieve.

This is a good video to watch .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRNzTPNB3vE
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Page Dude View Post
mmulcahy1 .. I wouldn't let Youtube be your be all end all. If it brings your confidence level down, get the heck out of there and do something that inspires you!

I post lessons all the time on Youtube. What appears to be a flawless performance is literally hours of practice and good editing. Don't be fooled by what a well edited video can look like .. what it actually took to get there may have taken a month for that drummer to achieve.

This is a good video to watch .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRNzTPNB3vE
Don't worry, Youtube is not my "be all, end all." I use it as a reference point for my playing. My point is that while I watch the playing in the video & listen to the song (I do sift through all the garbage to find those of high quality), I am seeing drummers play things I didn't realize were in the song - but am seeing/hearing for the first time.

It just leaves me thinking: "What else am I missing?"
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
I have been trying to learn some new songs as of late and thought I'd visit Youtube so I could "see" what other drummers are playing as opposed to just listening to the song.

I am really amazed at just how much I'm apparently missing while just listening to the music. While I definitely have the groove and the backbeat down, there are a lot of important nuances that get by me that I am not aware of.

This is definitely eroding my confidence as a drummer.

Is this an issue for any of you as well?
I see what you mean, but life's too short to contamplate your own shortcomings... Look at the bright side. Youtube allows you to steal those nuances and become a better drummer :)
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Youtube drum covers inspire me to be less like this guy.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
Youtube drum covers inspire me to be less like this guy.
Yeah, Iv'e seen that guy. Not a bad drummer, just has no feeling for what he's playing.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

It just leaves me thinking: "What else am I missing?"[/quote]

Maybe you aren't missing anything. What to you want to be better at? Find a teacher or book or both and study that until you feel confident. Then find something else you want to get good at and do it again.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

You should probably spend more time notating parts for yourself than looking at youtube to see how others are doing it. I'd say look to youtube covers once you've already studied it on your own.

The amount you can learn by notating stuff that inspires you is really hard to put into words. Go slow, listen for every note and figure out where it fits into the beat. Write it down and fully appreciate why everything is happening.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2014, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Youtube covers are good to watch if you're stuck on one part of the song where you can't understand the pattern, but I find it's better to look at the actual drummer playing the song. You'll be much better off looking at their technique and getting the feel of how they play rather than focusing on exactly what they're playing.

Just out of curiousity how much experience do you have playing with a full band? I've found that the more I play with other people the better I can pick out drum parts.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2014, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I get depressed watching some of these younger cats just killin' it!

But what is a big difference is that all of their videos are of them playing in their garage. All my videos are me playing on a stage at a gig. And getting paid. :D So there's that distinct difference that I must keep in mind.

Guys like Chris Paprota, Maison Guidry, Forrest Rice, etc... are all dudes that just melt my prefrontal cortex.

But the whole "drum cover" thing... it's cheap and instant gratification that seems to get a LOT of people started in the drum world...
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2014, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

No .
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I think it can be helpful for when you are stuck. But beware, some you tube drummers stick in parts or 'nuances' that are not there at all too. No getting down on yourself because its a journey. There is a place for everything.

I'd rather be having fun playing along with a real live band, skipping parts or dumming them down to my chops, than slaving over every youtube detail in my basement .....alone for hours playing with nobody.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

They don't influence me. Part of it is I went through that whole linear gospel chops phase when I was 20 and I can't stand hearing cats just blow those particular chops. I don't even like the way that stuff sounds anymore, even though I can appreciate what goes into it.

But mostly I would rather hear a drummer playing with other musicians.
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2014, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Yeah, Iv'e seen that guy. Not a bad drummer, just has no feeling for what he's playing.
I can't think of a better definition of 'bad player'. :)
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by The Black Page Dude View Post
This is a good video to watch .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRNzTPNB3vE
OMG, amazing video. Thank you!
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2014, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

No.

No doubt there are some good players putting up videos, but there are also tons of bad drummers playing parts are aren't even close to the original part.

And as mentioned, some of these multi-camera videos are multiple takes, edited together to appear as one performance.

But overall, even with the good drummers who's videos are 100% legit, it doesn't much interest me.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Abso-LUTELY not! There's some fun stuff to be found, and occasionally some excellent technical playing, but there's nothing there that I can use in real life (that I don't already know.) Besides, there's just too much Self-indulgent-stick-wank™ (or downright unlistenable performances) to sift through before getting to the good stuff.

If you emulate what's on YouTube, you'll probably end up on YouTube.

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Old 12-16-2014, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I have a fair amount of videos on youtube, but its mostly of me learning a new groove or trying out new stuff. Not any covers or anything like that. Mostly to show my friends who don't get a chance to see my live, and also to show off a bit on Facebook. But it also helps me build a portfolio so I can show other musicians or bands that I want to jam with.

Its all single camera, so no edits. Usually I do about 4-5 takes and take the best one, keeps it honest.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

If you emulate what's on YouTube, you'll probably end up on YouTube.

Bermuda
I'm in no way trying to emulate what's on Youtube - just using it for a resource.

It's kinda like how you "think" you know the lyrics to a song. You know, you've been singing it for like 30 years - you know it!

Then you come across the lyrics and you're like, "Holy Sh!t, those are the words?"

I just notice that when I watch some drummers, they're playing parts in the song that I wasn't aware of before I watched the video. I go back and listen to the song and yep, there it is. I hear it when I see it being played. How did I miss it when I was listening?
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2014, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
You should probably spend more time notating parts for yourself than looking at youtube to see how others are doing it. I'd say look to youtube covers once you've already studied it on your own.

The amount you can learn by notating stuff that inspires you is really hard to put into words. Go slow, listen for every note and figure out where it fits into the beat. Write it down and fully appreciate why everything is happening.
Inspiring words from Watso! I agree wholeheartedly, slowing down the playback speed and really digging into a well-crafted drum part is often a great exercise. Plus, there's nothing to lose from learning to play one or two parts note-for-note without any improvisation. I find it just another fun & educational way to play drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
But the whole "drum cover" thing... it's cheap and instant gratification that seems to get a LOT of people started in the drum world...
Depends. There are a lot of drum covers of thoughtless, boring original parts that are designed to get views (not much wrong with the latter intent, IMO, but it is certainly not immediately artistically motivated). I approach it more as a skill & portfolio (as Seafroggys mentioned) building exercise, as well as a justification of labor it's helpful to reframe this kind of stuff in the context of the life of a solo/self-determined ensemble percussionist. They're both primarily about performing other people's work to promote oneself, but they're also about interpreting an original part and adding one's own spin and hooks to it, interfacing with the composer. As a composer, that kind of conversation really revs me up, BUT this approach only works when the people doing the covers actually think critically about what they're playing... which many don't.

(My desires to build an audience for my own art, as well as share great music with people, also play into my drum cover motivations, to name some other factors.)
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I guess there are 2 elements.
1. Figuring out what is played/transcribing the part
2. Learning to play that.

I find YouTube to be a time saver on item 1.
I usually target to learn new songs or chops fast and don't mind to use YouTube for the figuring out part.

Thx

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Old 12-16-2014, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
You should probably spend more time notating parts for yourself than looking at youtube to see how others are doing it. I'd say look to youtube covers once you've already studied it on your own.

The amount you can learn by notating stuff that inspires you is really hard to put into words. Go slow, listen for every note and figure out where it fits into the beat. Write it down and fully appreciate why everything is happening.
Agree...

... early (2 years ago), in my getting back into drums, I would look at videos. If I was looking at the wrong video, which I probably was doing, they more than likely would screw me up.

Now, like Doc says, get it down. Then, if I'm not quite understanding how a certain portion is done, I may look at video's to pinpoint the questionable area by someone who has figured it out.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but, most of the songs (unless they're really old) you get on YouTube were done in the studio and "put together" from multiple tracks. I'd say a better representation of that certain drummer you are trying to emulate would be a live version of that song. Not the studio version. Myself, I would look to live versions for how to play a song.
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
I'm in no way trying to emulate what's on Youtube - just using it for a resource.

I just notice that when I watch some drummers, they're playing parts in the song that I wasn't aware of before I watched the video. I go back and listen to the song and yep, there it is. I hear it when I see it being played. How did I miss it when I was listening?
You need to develop better listening habits to be able to trust your own ears, not someone else's. YT is not a resource for determining the accuracy of parts. The vast majority of drummers and other musicians who post YT vids aren't attempting to play original parts in the first place, and those who claim they are - "how to play _____" - typically aren't. I don't recall ever seeing a YT video of anyone correctly covering the original drum parts of a song.

After I've put parts through the ringer for Al, I occasionally check YT to see if anyone else is as diligent as I am. They're not. It's not that I'm amazing, it's just that my career depends on being accurate, and I don't see that on YT.

There's only one way to be confident that you're learning the original parts, and that's to listen for yourself.

Bermuda
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by Macarina View Post
Then, if I'm not quite understanding how a certain portion is done, I may look at video's to pinpoint the questionable area by someone who has figured it out.
This touches on my previous response.

If you're not sure about a part, how do you know the guy on YouTube knows what to do?

Bermuda
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  #26  
Old 12-16-2014, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
This touches on my previous response.

If you're not sure about a part, how do you know the guy on YouTube knows what to do?
Because it sounds just like it does on the record, and now you see exactly how he/she did it.

I'd agree its important to listen and try, but YouTube is just another resource to help.
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

In trying to determine what the studio version played, so I can work that into a cover, I've found in some cases a YT Video (slowed down when possible) will shed some light on the groove or beat I couldn't hear.
But the most success I've had in nailing down parts is to read a good transcription (which, like YT Videos are highly inconsistent and many times, unreliable), then watch the best video(s) I can find, then work through the song by myself many, many times. I start with understanding the song as a whole, reading the lyrics, then dissecting parts and grooves. As my listening has matured, I try to hear where the bass or guitar grooves sync up with drums, and try to keep that intact in the cover.

I'm in Bermuda's camp on keeping the drums as close to the cover as I can for starters before trying to play it in a group. If the group doesn't follow that version closely, plays faster/slower or takes some extended jams, I can adapt as needed from a clear reference point. I do try to avoid excessive or over-playing, so prevalent on most YT Covers. Adding is easy, staying close to original is harder.
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  #28  
Old 12-17-2014, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
You need to develop better listening habits to be able to trust your own ears, not someone else's. YT is not a resource for determining the accuracy of parts. The vast majority of drummers and other musicians who post YT vids aren't attempting to play original parts in the first place, and those who claim they are - "how to play _____" - typically aren't. I don't recall ever seeing a YT video of anyone correctly covering the original drum parts of a song.

After I've put parts through the ringer for Al, I occasionally check YT to see if anyone else is as diligent as I am. They're not. It's not that I'm amazing, it's just that my career depends on being accurate, and I don't see that on YT.

There's only one way to be confident that you're learning the original parts, and that's to listen for yourself.

Bermuda
Bermuda---Respect your opinion on all things drum, but

How about this for accuracy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuhUnNpzw2o

I have found this young man's transcriptions and demos very helpful.

Last edited by RIneuron; 12-18-2014 at 10:52 PM. Reason: wrong URL
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  #29  
Old 12-17-2014, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by RIneuron View Post
Bermuda---Respect your opinion on all things drum, but

How about this for accuracy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouJetiHNAv0

I have found this young man's transcriptions and demos very helpful.
I don't have anything to compare it to in terms of accuracy. It's just a snare solo, and a bit choppy at times (he's not a rudimental drummer.)

Bermuda
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Abso-LUTELY not!
There we are. I watched a few of those videos, and was totally turned off when I saw that people doing this goofy visual stuff, like choreographing their crash cymbal hits, for the camera. If I want to figure out what someone is doing, I listen to the record.
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  #31  
Old 12-17-2014, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I'm intrigued, what kind of nuances are we talking about here?

When I was a kid for example I didn't know drummers played ghost notes. Is it that kind of thing?

By the sound of it you were pretty happy after using your own ears before you went to youtube, so I'm interested to know what popped out at you that you weren't hearing on the records?

I suspect we are talking minutiae here. There was a discussion the other day about whether it was sacrilage to leave out the last ride 16th before a crash. Often small details like that are fun to perfect, but isn't going to make or break the song.
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Yeah, Iv'e seen that guy. Not a bad drummer, just has no feeling for what he's playing.
I think he plays it wonderfully.

I'm not a great fan of Queen or that song, but I can listen to it played like that.

Just goes to show eh :-)
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I don't have anything to compare it to in terms of accuracy. It's just a snare solo, and a bit choppy at times (he's not a rudimental drummer.)

Bermuda
Sorry, B---I posted the wrong URL. I meant to refer to DrumsTheWord breakdown of Aja drum solo by Gadd as a useful example of YouTube content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuhUnNpzw2o
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  #34  
Old 12-19-2014, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
Youtube drum covers inspire me to be less like this guy.
I feel like I'm going to get carpal tunnel and tennis elbow just watching him play.
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
No .
+1. They can't influence me- I'm unique! Thats what my wife says anyhow....
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2014, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I enjoy guys like Troy Wright, because he'll oftentimes post up his transcriptions along with his videos. Then it's more than just a wank-fest.
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2014, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
I am really amazed at just how much I'm apparently missing while just listening to the music. While I definitely have the groove and the backbeat down, there are a lot of important nuances that get by me that I am not aware of.

This is definitely eroding my confidence as a drummer.
On the plus side, if you didn't see the videos you'd still be none the wiser about those arrangements. You learned something.

In my experience, the more arrangements you learn, the more you pick up.

I don't watch drum covers any more, though I like listening to isolated drum and rhythm section tracks from original recordings.
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2014, 02:14 PM
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braincramp braincramp is offline
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jornthedrummer View Post
I guess there are 2 elements.
1. Figuring out what is played/transcribing the part
2. Learning to play that.

I find YouTube to be a time saver on item 1.
I usually target to learn new songs or chops fast and don't mind to use YouTube for the figuring out part.

Thx

Jorn
+1 I have found drum covers to be a handy tool when cramming for an audition or sub gig.. need to learn 30 songs in 4 days.. it helps!
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  #39  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:02 PM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
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Default Re: Do Youtube Drum Covers Influence What/How You Play?

I confess I watch these, but mainly because it's the only way to get drum related video content.

I also find it annoying when people aren't true to the form. In the broader sense of not just songs but also musical styles and traditions. For example lessons on playing a rock beat that doesn't even generally just rock, but then calling it something else like salsa, samba, blues, jazz or funk.
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