Diminishing Returns

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beotos

Junior Member
My question is what would a chart curve for diminishing returns for drum quality x cost look like?

Diminishing-Returns.png


Where is the sweet spot? Also considering new vs used drums. From my research I would guess around the upper echelon of the mid tier kits $700-900 considering the sound quality you can get out of a drum from proper tuning and heading. Obviously hardware must be considered as well but I feel like that's a less important.

Current kits I am looking at:

Yamaha Stage Custom
Tama Starclassic Birch
Tama Starclassic B/B
Yamaha Absolute Birch
 
Your plot shows obsessing over drums takes a lot of energy. I'd agree.
I'd say the diminishing returns is a little above the price point you suggest, except that point may differ for many different people.
 
beotos said:
My question is what would a chart curve for diminishing returns for drum quality x cost look like?



Where is the sweet spot? Also considering new vs used drums. From my research I would guess around the upper echelon of the mid tier kits $700-900 considering the sound quality you can get out of a drum from proper tuning and heading. Obviously hardware must be considered as well but I feel like that's a less important.

Current kits I am looking at:

Yamaha Stage Custom
Tama Starclassic Birch
Tama Starclassic B/B
Yamaha Absolute Birch
Click to expand...




Depends on how your'e going to use the drums. A basement kit, a rental kit, a touring kit, weekend gig kit etc.?
 
Les Ismore said:
Depends on how your'e going to use the drums. A basement kit, a rental kit, a touring kit, weekend gig kit etc.?
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Exactly. It's entirely contextual. For example, a kit that dials in sweetly, characterfully, & instantly in a studio under close mic's will save a lot of time & produce excellent / consistent results. That's of strong value to someone frequently in that examining / professional environment, but of lesser value to someone knocking out rock covers in a bar band.

beotos said:
Obviously hardware must be considered as well but I feel like that's a less important.
Click to expand...
Unless you're a touring player, in which case it's arguably the most important consideration. Again - context.
 
These are all solid points, I’ll just add that the birch/ bubinga has a really beloved sound. People talk about that sound here all the time.
 
It depends a bit. Definetly what you'll use it for and what you personally value.

I know what I like. There's only one way to get it and it happens to be a bit pricey.

Quality and personal taste don't always relate. A personal fave is probably a pro kit, but after that there are so many choices.

For a beater bar kit I wouldn't care much and I'd make most things sound good enough.

Yes, we usually pay a premium for those extra 5-10%, but that thing yo love is either there or not. I'd end up saving for that because that sound would be a major part of the experience.
 
I know this is a redundant reply but I'll add it anyway.

The sweet spot is going to jump around depending on the individual.

Say that you're a beginner that hasn't yet developed a sound preference, the returns will diminish above a $200 used but complete beginner kit.

For a touring or frequently gigging drummer the hardware is essential and has to be at a durable level. Anything below that will never reach the sweet spot.

If your a jazz-trio drummer with experience and existing gear, only the shells and sound apply to the sweet spot....

Useless reply I know... :)
 
The sweet spot?

IMO, the "sweet spot" for buying drums is finding a used customized set that you can live with for cheap. THAT'S the sweet spot for me.

For example, here's a new Pearl Master's 3-piece for over $1200:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Pearl/Masters-Maple-Complete-3-Piece-Shell-Pack.gc


Compare that with a used 3-piece set of Pork Pie USA Customs for $699:

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/msd/d/pork-pie-red-sparkle-3-pc/6472902973.html



If given the choice, I'm going custom...even if I'm not a huge fan of the finish. 5 seconds after I start playing, no one cares what color my drums are anyways, but the WILL care about the sound.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the seller in any way. I'm just keeping an eye on these.
 
drumming sort of person said:
Really? It's can be a deal breaker for me.
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I agree, I would not purchase a set with poor hardware reviews, however I kind of made the assumption that even baseline hardware is good enough these days (Stage Custom, Superstar) when properly cared for.

I was also thinking of shell packs. Not a complete drumset that would come with cymbal / hi hat stands.

Les Ismore said:
Depends on how your'e going to use the drums. A basement kit, a rental kit, a touring kit, weekend gig kit etc.?
Click to expand...

This would be a house kit / gig kit. Not touring/recording right now but you never know :)

Side note: where are the smilies?
 
Not trying to avoid the question but.....

The FIRST question of ANY journey MUST be.... "How much do I have to spend?"

You can go to the moon If you have enough money....but if your budget will only gets you to Jersey?

ANY other question-apart from "what is your dream kit?" kinda questions, is a waste of time and energy.

I can't tell from your post if your budget is "$700-$900" or if that is just where you consider the "sweet spot" to be? For $700-900 you can get a killer used kit from a major manufacturer (or even the semi-custom guys like Pork Pie as mentioned). Just pick one i good condition snd you will be good to go for any context....

Then next question, as already stated above is "What do you intend to do with it?"

Those two questions will get you solid advice and real-life experiences and wisdom that you can't plot on a chart...
 
So your chart simply relates cost to drum build quality. Its purely based on the cost factors, not the true economic cost of buying a drum set. Also your use of the term energy (which, as Einstein told us is Mass X the speed of light ^2.) may not be the correct label for the horizontal axis. But, all that aside, I would say the lowest level of professional drum offered by any of the bigger manufacturers is the sweet spot. I also only took into account new kit prices. The real sweet spot is in buying used drums due to the huge amount of depreciation on musical equipment.

Tama - Starclassic (non-performer) $2000
Pearl Master Maple - $1500
Ludwig Classic Maple - $1500
DW Performance - $2200
Yamaha Recording Custom - $2000
Mapex Saturn - $1200

So I would say the sweet spot is around $1500. That price will get you a quality kit with high quality level hardware that will have tuning range and a professional aesthetic. That price gets you a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord of drums. Once you get beyond that its less about function and more about looking cool, which is certainly a diminishing return.
 
Plenty of factors come into play for me when determining the "sweet spot" or the greatest value for the $$$ spent. The "sweet spot" attribute is highly subjective depending on how an individual accords value to each of those factors, if they do attribute any value to a given factor at all.

For example, sizes are paramount for me as a starting point - available diameter and depths. Some folks have less specificity for this particular parameter (shallow bass drum depths, 15" floor toms etc).
 
I think you should replace Energy with cost or expense. You can't really quantify energy expended dreaming or researching a kit the way you can cost or expense.
 
eclipseownzu said:
So your chart simply relates cost to drum build quality. Its purely based on the cost factors, not the true economic cost of buying a drum set. Also your use of the term energy (which, as Einstein told us is Mass X the speed of light ^2.) may not be the correct label for the horizontal axis. But, all that aside, I would say the lowest level of professional drum offered by any of the bigger manufacturers is the sweet spot. I also only took into account new kit prices. The real sweet spot is in buying used drums due to the huge amount of depreciation on musical equipment.

Tama - Starclassic (non-performer) $2000
Pearl Master Maple - $1500
Ludwig Classic Maple - $1500
DW Performance - $2200
Yamaha Recording Custom - $2000
Mapex Saturn - $1200

So I would say the sweet spot is around $1500. That price will get you a quality kit with high quality level hardware that will have tuning range and a professional aesthetic. That price gets you a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord of drums. Once you get beyond that its less about function and more about looking cool, which is certainly a diminishing return.
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Lmao thanks yes it is true I did not create the chart just pulled it from google for the imagery.

Yes there is also the trouble figuring out how to budget for drums. I guess listing my current setup would help give ya'll an idea of where I'm at.

I'm using a
21" Meinl Byzance Traditional Ride
14" top vintage Avedis hi hat
14" bottom Paiste 2002 soundedge
16" vintage Avedis thin crash
18" vintage Avedis medium thin crash
Yamaha Musashi Oak 13x6.5
1990s? Pearl Export-Pro 22x16, 12x10, 13x11, 16x16
old Gibraltor bass pedal, old Pearl hi hat stand

Looking to drop ~$1000-$2000 in upgrades.
 
Andy said:
Exactly. It's entirely contextual. For example, a kit that dials in sweetly, characterfully, & instantly in a studio under close mic's will save a lot of time & produce excellent / consistent results. That's of strong value to someone frequently in that examining / professional environment, but of lesser value to someone knocking out rock covers in a bar band.

Unless you're a touring player, in which case it's arguably the most important consideration. Again - context.
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I absolutely agree with this statement. When I was playing in a touring band, I considered taking my vintage Ludwig kit on the road with me. The band did a short regional swing for about 5 days to prepare for the full tour. On the second or third day, two lugs -yes, the actual lugs- blew out on the bass drum as I was playing. The head went flappy all of the sudden, which resulted in a loss of tone and volume.

I wound up having to drive around the city the next day (delaying our leaving for the next show) trying to find a music store that had Ludwig parts. Of course no one did, so I had to take two lugs off the floor tom to use on the bass drum. When we got back home, I went out and bought a new Ludwig to take on the tour. Lesson learned. Hardware doesn't seem like a problem until it is.

By the way, I'd go for the Tama B/B, if it was me.
 
There are a zillion players (well maybe only a billion lol) playing Gretsch Catalina sets made of mahogany or maple. $600-$900. They play one or two local gigs a week with them and schlep them everywhere. They get abused. They keep performing. Another $500 buys you a Gretsch Renown kit that you could use on any tour. A+ hardware, die cast hoops. Solid. I'd say $1,300-$2,000 is the pricepoint where you see a noticeable increase in hardware quality. Above that it's negligible and the graph would flatline.

beotos said:
I agree, I would not purchase a set with poor hardware reviews, however I kind of made the assumption that even baseline hardware is good enough these days (Stage Custom, Superstar) when properly cared for.

I was also thinking of shell packs. Not a complete drumset that would come with cymbal / hi hat stands.



This would be a house kit / gig kit. Not touring/recording right now but you never know :)

Side note: where are the smilies?
Click to expand...
 
Last month I got a pearl decade 3 piece shell pack new for $500 plus another $100 for new heads and they sound amazing so I would say diminishing returns sound wise for shells is pretty low depending on what you get but cheap snares and cymbals suck. My snare is about the same price as the shell pack and cymbals much more. Financially I could afford any drums and I played vintage slingerland and pearl masters previously so I have reference for what I like. I am into thin shells and triple flange and the decades are perfect. Hardware wise the kick is virgin and the rack tom is on a snare stand so no issues there and the lugs stay in tune.
 
I ended up going with a 2016 Yamaha Stage Custom (cranberry red). Got a great deal on reverb:

8x7 small tom
10x7 rack tom
12x8 rack tom
14x11 rack tom
14x13 FT
16x15 FT
14x5 snare drum
20x17 bass drum

8 pc. drums used (mint) condition I paid $475 shipping incl.

So excited to receive them.
 
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