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  #1  
Old 12-31-2013, 04:26 PM
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Default Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exist in main stream music

Beacuse there are no guitarists like Pete Townshend, no Bassist like John Enwhistle and no vocalist like Roger Daltrey ever exist today.....who have the unanimous mentality towards how to back up or accompany their music with a set of drums.........just my thought.


Happy Newyear friends.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

I'm not certain what you mean by 'mainstream,' but it seems to me Moon inspired a lot of drummers who play like he did. Same for the other guys in the Who.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

Pretty sure its because no drummer alive today is that messed up in the had as keith moon. We are talking about the guy who waited until we was a professional drummer to try to take lessons and got his money returned because the teacher felt he could only hurt keith. Safe to say we won't have a keit moon because no ones that crazy and I doubt any serious band wants to try and rely on someone like that.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

no one could play like Moonie if they tried 24 hours a day for their entire life...... thats why

I have studied Moon closely for the past 15 years

I have even worked for over a decade on an unfinished thesis on Moons drumming where I have interviewed many people in his life including his daughter Mandy, Roger Daltry, Dougal Butler, one of Keiths drum techs Mick Double and many others.

his drumming is entirely too unorthodox for most common more orthodox drummers to comprehend ..... myself included.... although I feel that I have some grasp on his odd approach but it all still seems so difficult to wrap my brain around...too many intangibles

he definitely had strong tendencies ...such as
following the vocal
crashing on odd 3s
pumping the bass drum constantly through "fills"
not playing both sticks on the same tom very often at all when playing around the kit
riding on two cymbals
using the single stroke four a ton
etc etc.

there was no one like Keith before him and will never be anyone like him again.....just not possible

the Who without Keith would have sucked and probably vise versa as well

thank goodness they found each other so that we have all those records to listen to and admire Keiths pure fury and musical expression

...and accepted mainstream of the masses is much more structured than it was when the Who was putting out records with Keith .

Last edited by WhoIsTony?; 12-31-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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Originally Posted by kyle View Post
Pretty sure its because no drummer alive today is that messed up in the had as keith moon. We are talking about the guy who waited until we was a professional drummer to try to take lessons and got his money returned because the teacher felt he could only hurt keith. Safe to say we won't have a keit moon because no ones that crazy and I doubt any serious band wants to try and rely on someone like that.
Keith played that way before he ever touched any sort of drugs
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

"I have studied Moon closely for the past 15 years"

Interesting. How many of us played to Live at Leeds when we were kids? I don't recall having to think outside any drumming box to follow what Moon did. He was a raw, natural talent. I never got the impression he put a lot of thought into what he did, he just did it, like most young rock drummers.

I see and hear many players today who ride on crash cymbals, who do double tom rolls around the set, and other "Moonisms," if they can be referred to as original things he did back then.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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Originally Posted by kyle View Post
Pretty sure its because no drummer alive today is that messed up in the had as keith moon. We are talking about the guy who waited until we was a professional drummer to try to take lessons and got his money returned because the teacher felt he could only hurt keith. Safe to say we won't have a keit moon because no ones that crazy and I doubt any serious band wants to try and rely on someone like that.
The story of him trying to take lessons from Philly Joe Jones, (one of his heroes) may or may not be true. And once he settled in the Who, it probably would have hurt the myth he created of this self taught wild man. But he actually did take lessons early on from Carlo Little, a London drummer with Screaming Lord Sutch, who was apparently the hottest act around town.

You're right; In this day and age, he'd have a problem finding a band to fit in. But at the time, his explosive, charismatic presence fit the bill. Though I'm sure he was able to do what he did because early on, he practiced his lessons diligently. Because as eccentric as his playing was, there was an underlying control that allowed everything to fit. That being said, Keith was a one off.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

If someone comes up with an excellent Rock Opera like Tommy today, I bet he/she would not allow anyone like Keith moon to play along it...just because there are a lot of excellent time keeping technical drummers exists today who get exposed to so called DVDs or drum shops or forums like this..


However, Keith was the one and the only drummer who got lucky to play in Tommy, a rock opera, which has been played today by acts like Broadway!, composed of musicians with higher academic qualifications in music.


Pete Townshend is my hero.....he allowed Keith to play by the seat of his pants....


the only closest Keith Moon moment i experience is in Deep Purple -Burn when Paicey steps over the Coverdale vocal....still even that sound technical to me.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

Because no one uses that quantity of drugs any more
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
no one could play like Moonie if they tried 24 hours a day for their entire life...... thats why

I have studied Moon closely for the past 15 years

I have even worked for over a decade on an unfinished thesis on Moons drumming where I have interviewed many people in his life including his daughter Mandy, Roger Daltry, Dougal Butler, one of Keiths drum techs Mick Double and many others.

his drumming is entirely too unorthodox for most common more orthodox drummers to comprehend ..... myself included.... although I feel that I have some grasp on his odd approach but it all still seems so difficult to wrap my brain around...too many intangibles

he definitely had strong tendencies ...such as
following the vocal
crashing on odd 3s
pumping the bass drum constantly through "fills"
not playing both sticks on the same tom very often at all when playing around the kit
riding on two cymbals
using the single stroke four a ton
etc etc.

there was no one like Keith before him and will never be anyone like him again.....just not possible

the Who without Keith would have sucked and probably vise versa as well

thank goodness they found each other so that we have all those records to listen to and admire Keiths pure fury and musical expression

...and accepted mainstream of the masses is much more structured than it was when the Who was putting out records with Keith .
+1.The man was one of a kind.I've said this before,but I tend to seperate the man,from the myth,or how one conducted themselves,did or didn't use drugs and alcohol.

History will judge Moonie,my job is to listen to the great music he helped create,out of nothing.So he's not being nominated for a humanitarian award......so what!

Steve B
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exist in main stream music

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Originally Posted by Pachikara-Tharakan View Post
Beacuse there are no guitarists like Pete Townshend, no Bassist like John Enwhistle and no vocalist like Roger Daltrey ever exist today.....who have the unanimous mentality towards how to back up or accompany their music with a set of drums.........just my thought.


Happy Newyear friends.
The Who were never unanimous in their musical decisions. Their rivalries and arguments were legendary.
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2013, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

Moon? One of a kind.Why anyone would want to copy any drummer escapes me, but trying to be like Moon would be a misnomer. He was the player he was because he was not deliberately trying to play like someone else, he we simply playing how he felt at the time and reaching for the impossible.

Not saying he was a great drummer and he is not my favorite drummer, but he was unique, and mesmerising to watch live. If I could interpret a piece of music like he did I would be a happy man, he could obviously hear and feel things that are beyond me.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

As much as there are no drummers since that had/have Moon's unique combination of power, grace, personal technique and musicality, it is just as telling that there are no bands with such strong performers, composers and instrumentalists as The Who.

In fact, the current time pales in comparison to those days.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

I love moon's playing. I learned to play drums listening to him and other early rock drummers..

In the past and just recently I have played some songs like Moon did. I play along closely with the melody, vocals and guitar parts.

I think it sounds pretty good. And the other drummers in the audience always compliment me after the song.

However, during the song, the other musicians in the band give me that "I wish you would stop that" look. And that look that says "It's not time for a drum solo !! ".



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Old 01-01-2014, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

I think almost all of the drum teachers and session drummers are Book smart drummers while Keith was purely Street Smart. ....and there are some band drummers who claim they are Street smart but they do follow the book most of the time.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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I think almost all of the drum teachers and session drummers are Book smart drummers while Keith was purely Street Smart. ....and there are some band drummers who claim they are Street smart but they do follow the book most of the time.
Well said.
I don't want to knock it as I am not the most gifted drummer out there, but there are a lot of book learned play by numbers drummers now. One thing Kieth could not be accused of was playing what was expected or what was supposed to come next.
Most drummers now, including me, would be terrified buy the thought of flying by the seat of there pants.

RIP a true legend.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

He is surely an interesting drummer to consider (at the very least...).

I have no idea if he had lessons or not, but obviously in his context he was unique-as were the great majority of his contemporaries I think (consider Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker, Bill Bruford, to name just three out of say 30 or 40 others).

I came across an interview with Mick Fleetwood recently where he made a couple of statements that got my attention. One was the he "could never play the same thing twice" and that he was "dyslexic" behind the kit and played rolls "backwards". I believe Mick could be considered "self taught" or maybe "self developed". Ringo Starr has made similar statments about playing his tom fills "backwards".

These and similar statments resonate strongly with me personally as I have similar issues of not being able to...let's just say "comprehend time" in a conventional sense. While I have a stong rythmic and musical sense and can keep time well, I cannot for the life of me play "repetitive patterns" or "the same thing twice". This has the dual effect of making my drumming unique but also "wrong" (lol) from a "true drummer" standpoint-but I'm still having a blast behind the kit.

I love Moon's energy and craziness and I think it's a damn shame we lost him, John Bonham, and others, to the undertow of drug and alchohol abuse topped with the pressure of celebrity...
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

I love Moonie. His passion, his style, his part in the Who. He is an enigma but known to all. He will always be to me a mystery, and idol and someone I would love to talk to for 15 minutes.

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Old 01-01-2014, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

The reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exist on main stream music, non-main-street music, non-commercial artistic music or totally out there music is because no one would allow all that in their band, not a a drummer who played like that, no way, not these days they wouldn't. They would expect a drummer who knew all the drum stuff. Keith Moon didn't know about any of that.

It was the nineteen sixties. Of course Keith Moon played the drums like that. He was the drummer for the Who.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
He is surely an interesting drummer to consider (at the very least...).

I have no idea if he had lessons or not, but obviously in his context he was unique-as were the great majority of his contemporaries I think (consider Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker, Bill Bruford, to name just three out of say 30 or 40 others).

I came across an interview with Mick Fleetwood recently where he made a couple of statements that got my attention. One was the he "could never play the same thing twice" and that he was "dyslexic" behind the kit and played rolls "backwards". I believe Mick could be considered "self taught" or maybe "self developed". Ringo Starr has made similar statments about playing his tom fills "backwards".

These and similar statments resonate strongly with me personally as I have similar issues of not being able to...let's just say "comprehend time" in a conventional sense. While I have a stong rythmic and musical sense and can keep time well, I cannot for the life of me play "repetitive patterns" or "the same thing twice". This has the dual effect of making my drumming unique but also "wrong" (lol) from a "true drummer" standpoint-but I'm still having a blast behind the kit.

I love Moon's energy and craziness and I think it's a damn shame we lost him, John Bonham, and others, to the undertow of drug and alchohol abuse topped with the pressure of celebrity...
Nice post. If you take your point about playing "Wrong". Its the very lifeblood of Rock and Roll.
Lennon and McCartney made a deliberate move from composing on guitar, to the piano. There reasoning was that they thought they were becoming predictable using the guitar so moved to the piano as they had no experience on the instrument and came up with "Happy accidents"
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

This is a very interesting thread...and I like it very much. It' prompted me to go back through my Who catalog and re-enjoy Keith Moon.

Ironically...believe it or not...I rank the 1982 Who concert I attended to be the best concert I have personally been to. No Moon. We had average+ seats, but the sound was spectacular and the performance was awesome.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

When Kenney played , he used the extra bass drum as a "rack" to support a tom, not as another basic beat Moonie used whenever he wanted when he exploded on the skins.


I still think when i play along the song "eminence front" the blant dead steady time keeping book smart beat Kenney played can be re recorded with another Street Smart drummer with some unpredictable fills to make it more "spicy".


New Guitarists, bassists, vocalists and producers need to be reborn in the rock music field to accept a street smart drummer like Moonie...in my honest opinion.....cause no one wants to get out of that "Book smart play by the rule rut" they are in.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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New Guitarists, bassists, vocalists and producers need to be reborn in the rock music field to accept a street smart drummer like Moonie...in my honest opinion.....cause no one wants to get out of that "Book smart play by the rule rut" they are in.
I understand...I'm old enough to be a huge moon fan. technology and the grid are hurting the art of drumming today
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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This is a very interesting thread...and I like it very much. It' prompted me to go back through my Who catalog and re-enjoy Keith Moon.

Ironically...believe it or not...I rank the 1982 Who concert I attended to be the best concert I have personally been to. No Moon. We had average+ seats, but the sound was spectacular and the performance was awesome.
It was a great concert probably because they had to refocus on their sound without Moon.

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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New Guitarists, bassists, vocalists and producers need to be reborn in the rock music field to accept a street smart drummer like Moonie...in my honest opinion.....cause no one wants to get out of that "Book smart play by the rule rut" they are in.

This is right on !

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A61hGdI0m3Q

2:53 to 2:59-- Charley boy is thinking of Moonie for 6 seconds....Jagger and Richards seemed ok with that. :)
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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I think almost all of the drum teachers and session drummers are Book smart drummers while Keith was purely Street Smart. ....and there are some band drummers who claim they are Street smart but they do follow the book most of the time.
Citation please before you start banding this nonsense around.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

One of the reasons is everyone strive for perfection. Too much perfection is boring to me and other Keith Moon fans.......:)
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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One of the reasons is everyone strive for perfection. Too much perfection is boring to me and other Keith Moon fans.......:)
I have never seen that quote from Grohl...I am gaining respect towards him; not that he needs it or that it matters.

I also just watched Sound City the other night and, aside from all the tape they had on that recording kit in the studio, I gained an appreciation for him and his actions.

I still don't care for the Foo Fighters music...but am really gaining an appreciation for Dave Grohl... my "overrated" thoughts on him previously are being revised.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

I dont care for the foo fighters music either, their drummer (Hawkins) seem to play by the "rules"..so.

another interesting fact on Dave Grohl is he played the whole "never mind" album by holding the sticks the "wrong way" (grip at the tapered end , hitting the skins with the fat end)....breaking the rules of those who follow books.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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One of the reasons is everyone strive for perfection. Too much perfection is boring to me and other Keith Moon fans.......:)
Now if he could only learn how to speak without needing to swear all over the place.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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I dont care for the foo fighters music either, their drummer (Hawkins) seem to play by the "rules"..so.

another interesting fact on Dave Grohl is he played the whole "never mind" album by holding the sticks the "wrong way" (grip at the tapered end , hitting the skins with the fat end)....breaking the rules of those who follow books.
Uh a few drummers use the butt end of the stick. Nicko from Iron Maiden uses the butt end of his sticks as well.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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breaking the rules of those who follow books.
Jesus, long bow mate.

Your obsession for not following musical norms is now causing you to look in some pretty strange places for examples to "prove" your point. You think Grohl was the first guy to flip a stick? I wonder if burying your head so deep in the sand is not causing you to miss out on a heap?
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

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I dont care for the foo fighters music either, their drummer (Hawkins) seem to play by the "rules"..so.

another interesting fact on Dave Grohl is he played the whole "never mind" album by holding the sticks the "wrong way" (grip at the tapered end , hitting the skins with the fat end)....breaking the rules of those who follow books.

wow bro

forgive me for saying this ...but you are really starting to sound like a complete jackass ....to say the very least
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

To be fair, if I'd spent my entire musical existence listening to the Rolling Stones, Deep Purple and The Who and nothing else, I'd be pretty jaded.

I learned the 'book' on musical composition so that I could break it. If you study, you can innovate. Otherwise more often than not, you're thrashing around in the dark thinking you're being original when nothing is further from the truth.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

The Mars Volta comes pretty close to that sound...
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:57 AM
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Pachikara-Tharakan Pachikara-Tharakan is offline
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanAHVITCDY

the music sounds fully cohesive.............if we replace Moonie with one of the best drummers in the world , (name ur fav), I bet the music might not sound this "different" like this. The music stood out for sure...cause they were thinking out of the box....

too bad there is no full DVD available.....
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:11 AM
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coolhand1969 coolhand1969 is offline
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

Oh my, we are back on the Keith Moon issue again. I will say the same thing I posted before, he is by far the most over rated drummer ever. The guy needed serious psychological help, as well as to maybe try and spend 2 straight hours sober. He did not take the drums seriously, the group had to hunt him down, try to clean him up a bit and then he had to completely re-learn how to play the drums.

Maybe, he was a complete genius, a true prodigy, but he threw it all away trashing hotel rooms and dressing up in women's clothes.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:24 AM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

What's wrong with dressing up in women's clothes? I've certainly been known to do it...
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:24 AM
MCM MCM is offline
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Default Re: Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

In short, because mainstream music is barely music and it sucks. It's all clicks and computers. Real drummers are under the radar
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