traditional grip speed

i like to use traditional grip on the set but ive been wondering how u gain speed. because your speed comes from the fingers on your right hand but i dont understand what speed comes from with traditional grip! i mean theres not really any fingers pulling the stick down. its all in the fulcrim. so does the speed come from how fast i can twitch my wrist or is there something im missing? help please!!!! i dont like my right hand being too much faster than my left.

You can use fingers to move the stick even in traditional grip. Check out Jojo Mayer's video, he explains everything.
But if you feel Traditional Grip is limiting you, why don't you play matched grip? Don't play traditional grip because it looks cool or because all the big cats do it.

Tom Sawyer said:

You can use fingers to move the stick even in traditional grip. Check out Jojo Mayer's video, he explains everything.
But if you feel Traditional Grip is limiting you, why don't you play matched grip? Don't play traditional grip because it looks cool or because all the big cats do it.

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That was the point of Jojo's . He does state in the video that there is *no* superiority of one grip over the other. I have a least two other dvd's that were produced in the past two years that say the same thing. There is no more of this "You MUST play traditional to extract ghost notes, techniques ...etc" it's using the grip that fits you with the least limits for your playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mFVRX08rEc&feature=related

Art Verdi plays fast hehe

From what I've learned, when you get to the tomtoms it's pretty much about how fast you can rotate your wrist. Ofcourse it need a lot of finger technique also, but the rotating motion must be developed.

Weckl explains how, in his evolution DVD, he turned his traditional style, into a rebound technique, and his left was doing something that in all my years of playing traditional, has been a nono.
Letting the sick free, opening the hand. And it is true.
He explains that if you keep the index finger in top of the stick, it is limited in how much up it can go, or how much rebound you can get, without the need to actually twist your arm, in order to achieve max speed and rebound,.
In his own words, its ok to open the hand, actually, the fingers stay in the stick for low volume control of the stick, but for power and speed, he completely opens the hand.
Its the pendulum principle, where a continuous movement keeps the stick rebounding in the pad, with minimal movement of the thumb. A little bit of wrist, of course, as he said, but mostly thumb.
Joe Morello said, of course we use the wrist and forearm, they are there , and of course, they are going to move.
But there are different techniques that concentrate in wrist, and fingers.
Wrist involves the pendulum effect of the wrist and thumb, making the pendulum effect for a continuous movement of the stick with minimal effort. The hand gets totally open for that movement to be maximized, without the limitation of the position of the index and hart finger being on top of the stick.
Finger technique is were the stick still rests in the hand cradle, but the index is continuously moving the stick down, the stick rebounds up and the index puts it down again, creating, again, a pendulum effect.
Its like taping a table with your index, just between the index and thumb, there is the stick.
Check youtube for Weckl's hand technique videos. Priceless!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhSURjNmKRo&feature=related

Good Luck!

The Ryctor!

ryctor said:

Letting the stick free, opening the hand. And it is true.

but for power and speed, he completely opens the hand.

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I agree that this is an effective method, with just some small differences in terminology. Still it's all the same idea really, although there are a number of variations.

I personally open the hand completely. My wrist moves quickly and continuously, but the movement is short and economical, while the finger manipulation /where the control derives/ is entirely thumb. I think of my wrists within the context of a car's engine being turned on, while fingers account for the the accelerator and the brakes. Once you start to play, both are equally important. But without a functioning wrist, nothing will go on with those fingers/thumb.

Here's one of my examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFGS1uBthO4&feature=channel_page

If you look at the top of my arms, you will see very small but rapid movement just below the wrists, which signifies very short, but visible wrist movement.This is why I never understand people who say all fingers. I just don't see how a constant wrist motion is not possible. But maybe those guys know something I don't, or maybe we're all still saying the same thing, but with a different terminology.

Although this was a world record run, it seemed on the surface that the control in the thumb started to deteriorate after the first 30 seconds. But in actuality the largest problem was a slow down in my wrists which screwed up the timing in my thumb. This is a problem with the all thumb technique, and something I'm always trying to work on

That night, I had already performed 3 runs over 1100 during a half hour period. Therefore, my engine, which after the warmup had solid Corvette possiblities had been reduced to a decent Nissan, which then disrupted my thumb accelerator. In other words, after those previous runs, my engine was in need of a tune up.

Of course, you're not trying to play singles for as fast as humanly possible for a minute or more in most musical situations. But I endorse the thumb setup, because it keeps you relaxed and keeps the carpal threat to a minimum.