Jazz ride: When familiar patterns are unfamiliar

Liebe zeit

Silver Member
So on Saturday my teacher gave me some jazz-related exercises as 'homework'.

They are basically the jazz ride pattern on the R with different patterns for the left hand.

I've started one that is: R = jazz ride; L = hitting all the triplet subdivisions.

To do it I've had to, mentally at least, lead with my left and do all the triplet subdivisions, and then add in the ride hits in the right places with my R hand.

It feels very odd; my right hand is now doing the ride pattern, but it's not 'dominant', the L hand is instead. I'm only a couple of days into it, but I'm intrigued to see if at some point my brain will say, "Ah I see, that's just the ride pattern on your R hand. I know it well so I'll do that automatically. And hey, guess what, in the meantime you've taught me to hit every triplet subdivision while you do it."

Just me musing on the strange things our brain does during learning. Any related experiences very welcome.
 
I think its great that you are working on this

even if a drummer never has any intention of playing jazz just learning to comp with the jazz ride beat is fantastic for your independence and dexterity

in my opinion though you should start with just the ride pattern ....get that digging in since that is the absolute most important part of anything you will play in this style ...really get it to swing and feel right....its harder than most think...(I recommend playing just your ride cymbal along with someone like Art Blakey or Jimmy Cobb to get that authentic feel)......then add only 8th notes on your left hand instead of trips since 8ths are what you are playing on your right .....I think its a better way to really understand the swung 8ths since on the "ands" of 1 and 3 you are just filling the skip beat gaps and on the "ands" of 2 and 4 you are under the skip

quarter notes first, then all the "ands", then mixing them

try to focus on your right hand running the show and your left being pretty quiet

remember this is nothing like dropping back beats in rock and funk

the John Riley method is pretty flawless for learning this

but hey..... definitely do what your teacher suggests

I absolutely love that you are working on this.

not enough teachers today focus on jazz playing and I truly believe the students playing suffers from it in many ways

exposure to styles, independence, feel, and dynamics being just a few of the ways

like I said earlier....I cant stress enough how important learning this stuff is even if you never ever intend on playing one note of jazz with other musicians

keep working brother
 
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Cheers dude

It came about as I mentioned that as a side interest to the main stuff I was working on that I had started to look at the basic jazz groove . . . and my teacher was off, getting me to try half a dozen different snare hits to a jazz ride (that was a real headf***!). I thought he'd got ahead of the game a bit myself, but like you say, just practising this stuff is bound to be good for me, and I am working on jazz ride (+ hats/bass etc) too so it'll all come together at some point.

I am also developing a bit of a jazz habit
 
Cheers dude

It came about as I mentioned that as a side interest to the main stuff I was working on that I had started to look at the basic jazz groove . . . and my teacher was off, getting me to try half a dozen different snare hits to a jazz ride (that was a real headf***!). I thought he'd got ahead of the game a bit myself, but like you say, just practising this stuff is bound to be good for me, and I am working on jazz ride (+ hats/bass etc) too so it'll all come together at some point.

I am also developing a bit of a jazz habit

love to hear that

and you have some really good jazz players here at your finger tips whenever you need advice or maybe a little inspiration

keep at it brother....you are doing the right thing
 
I already saw them, Andrew. They're really good intros; they were the first thing I looked at on this latest little journey.
 
To do it I've had to, mentally at least, lead with my left and do all the triplet subdivisions, and then add in the ride hits in the right places with my R hand.

That's an unusual way to think about it, but what the hell, everyone has a different way of learning. I think it's a good thing that you're not hearing the ride pattern in there right now- it means you're strictly dealing with the coordination, which is what's going to make it happen for you. It helps to think of the combined part with both hands as a single rhythm, with an applied sticking of R's, L's, and B's (both hands).

Another thing I've had good results with with my students is to reduce it to a two-beat idea, starting on beat 2 (or the pickup into beat 2)- so you're just getting a single "ding da ding", plus the coordinated snare part. Once you can do that two-beat idea a few times in a row, you should basically have it nailed. And you never really lose track of the really important thing, which is the time feel on the cymbal. It's illustrated here if you want to take a look.

Anyway, good on you for getting into this- it should have a positive effect on your playing whatever you decide to do with it.
 
...I'm intrigued to see if at some point my brain will say, "Ah I see, that's just the ride pattern on your R hand. I know it well so I'll do that automatically.

Yes, keep working on it and that will definitely happen.
 
Are you also putting your hats down on 2 and 4? Bass drum on each quarter?
 
Are you also putting your hats down on 2 and 4? Bass drum on each quarter?
I can do the ride, hats and bass, but am struggling to do more than put a snare on a 4 (or 2). The thing I'm talking about in the OP that I'm working on is ride plus snare patterns.
 
It's like you are shifting the balance of your brainpower to favor the weaker side for now? Awesome. It's cool that you have the ability to shift power from the "wheels that grip, to the wheels that slip" lol. I really can't add much, Anthony covered all the bases. His posts are so chock full of truth and wisdom.
 
That's an unusual way to think about it
It's because I'm hitting every triplet with my L it feels like I'm playing left handed

Another thing I've had good results with with my students is to reduce it to a two-beat idea, starting on beat 2 (or the pickup into beat 2)- so you're just getting a single "ding da ding", plus the coordinated snare part. Once you can do that two-beat idea a few times in a row, you should basically have it nailed. And you never really lose track of the really important thing, which is the time feel on the cymbal. It's illustrated here if you want to take a look.
I'll give that a go. Thanks, fellah
 
I can do the ride, hats and bass, but am struggling to do more than put a snare on a 4 (or 2). The thing I'm talking about in the OP that I'm working on is ride plus snare patterns.

I found that marking 2 and 4 with the hats really helps me keep things in order in my head and allows more freedom with my other limbs. It sounds like you're getting introduced to "comping" on the snare while playing jazz... Keeping a constant count on 2 and 4 can make the shift from rock styles to jazz styles... Pretend it's your snare.
 
Props to your teacher for giving you something you can actually use and really need. Strong independence in drumming is almost what separates the boys from the men. Can any drummer play a jazz beat? Yes. Can any drummer play a jazz beat while playing straightened 8th or 16th notes on the snare? No. If you're interested in this type of playing, you NEED to get Jim Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer. In my opinion, it's the greatest and most valuable drum book ever written. Keep it up, though. You'll soon see a major improvement in your playing.
 
i think the riley book is much better than the chapin one.. the complete drummers vocabulary as taught by alan dawson is even better IMO
 
I used the Chapin book back in the 1960s and also A Modern Approach To Independence by Nick Ceroli. Both are excellent.

Just be patient. Start slowly as accuracy is the most important thing. It will come with practice. I used a metronome as well.

Also try as Chapin suggests, reversing the limbs. i.e. play the ride with LH and snare with the RH and the BD part on the hihat and HH part on the BD.

You can also use your reading books. Play ride in the RH and the reading exercise against it with the LH.

Have fun
Spruso
 
No. If you're interested in this type of playing, you NEED to get Jim Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer.
My teacher was showing me that book and raving about it at the same lesson. I think the photocopied sheet of the stuff I've talked about in the OP he's given me may be based on it.

I ordered Art of Bop this week too
 
To update on the OP, now I've made what I'm playing on my LH so automated that I'm back to hearing the ride on the RH and it's starting to really come together.
 
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