Discouragement for Chops I Don't Have

Rex068

Junior Member
First things first... I don't know if this is a rarity, but I actually find enjoyment in keeping it simple on the drums, I actually enjoy playing less as opposed to more, from being inspired by drummers like Bernard Purdie, Steve Jordan and David Garibaldi.

Going a bit off topic, awhile ago I was prepping for a live audition for jazz studies in university. During that time period, I watched other drummers on Youtube perform for their audition tapes. When it was time for my audition day, I was exposed to those whose playing level far exceeded mine. I was frightened as Hell because, well first of all I wasn't used to seeing people my age play at my level (in real life) and both the drummers I watched online and the drummers I saw on my audition day used crazy fast licks and had mad chops, while my playing style was much more conservative.

Also, lately, my friends have been showing me drum cover videos in which the drummer, again, has fast licks, mad chops, and does a crazy fill every ten seconds. It's starting to become very demoralizing being compared to others.

In the past, I used to not work on chops at all 'cause I considered groove far more important. I figured that with working on groove exercises, chops would come naturally, but clearly I was wrong. Now, I consider chops to be of equal importance of groove, and I'm working on chops as much as my groove, but I feel the constant pressure for being exposed to so many people who are using mad chops to impress others. Like I said before, it's kinda discouraging because maybe my personal style is too simplistic for others.

Sorry if this seems like some tedious, dumb self-pity rant. I just need to know if I should stick to my original mindset and not worry about those other drummers or if I should just suck it up and take this as a message to work on my chops more than ever.
 
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I just need to know if I should stick to my original mindset and not worry about those other drummers or if I should just suck it up and take this as a message to work on my chops more than ever.
Having additional skills is always a good thing. Always using them isn't.

I too like to keep stuff simple, but I often find myself in a position where my choices are limited by my lack of skills.
 
I think as you're using the term 'discouragement' it's about time to work on your mindset!
NEVER think in terms like discouragement, frustrating or something simlilar. Always keep a positive attitude.

As for chops - they give you more options and will help you greatly letting things 'flow' once you have them. Learning them takes a lot of time and it might seem like somewhat of a waste because chops aren't used all the time so why bothering acquiring them? Well because for those moments that you want to use them you could do so, and then, refining your technique will make your overall playing much easier and more controlled.

The nice thing about chops (not saying that I have any) is that your limbs are programmed to a degree that will allow you let things happen without thinking much about it. 'Freedom' is the term that comes to my mind.
 
Chops are a good thing in low to moderate levels. But if I had the choice of taking someone on tour who played fast licks all the time or someone who played more sympathetically with the music, I'd take the more considerate drummer with me. :)
 
I guarantee you that most non drummer musicians (IE the guys you'll actually make music with) do not care about chops at all, they certainly care about groove, timing and feel tho.

Don't focus so much on everybody else's drumming. Focus on you: Are you getting the most out of your practice sessions? Are you focusing on stuff that really interests you? Are you addressing your weakness in the practice room?

Also are you playing music with other people? Drummers by themselves tend to be all about crazy chops and licks, like in most of those VicFirth 15 second videos, but playing with other people you quickly find out that solid grooving is almost always preferred to a chop display.

Lastly, you're not alone. I feel the sting of self doubt all the time, you get on youtube and watch a 16 year old playing some ridiculous complex beat and it makes you wonder if you're just wasting your time. The thing to remember is that music is not a competition, the happiness and sheer sense of fulfillment I get out of playing music makes me want to keep doing it, no matter how many crazy chop guys are out there.
 
I guarantee you that most non drummer musicians (IE the guys you'll actually make music with) do not care about chops at all, they certainly care about groove, timing and feel tho.

Don't focus so much on everybody else's drumming. Focus on you: Are you getting the most out of your practice sessions? Are you focusing on stuff that really interests you? Are you addressing your weakness in the practice room?

Also are you playing music with other people? Drummers by themselves tend to be all about crazy chops and licks, like in most of those VicFirth 15 second videos, but playing with other people you quickly find out that solid grooving is almost always preferred to a chop display.

Lastly, you're not alone. I feel the sting of self doubt all the time, you get on youtube and watch a 16 year old playing some ridiculous complex beat and it makes you wonder if you're just wasting your time. The thing to remember is that music is not a competition, the happiness and sheer sense of fulfillment I get out of playing music makes me want to keep doing it, no matter how many crazy chop guys are out there.

To echo these sentiments, music is a form of communication and expression. So you should learn what you feel you need to learn in order to express what it is that you want to say with the instrument!

Now that sounds a tad pretentious, but that is the thrust of what musicians should be trying to do. Having said that, personally I think that if you know something you don't have to use it. But if you don't know it, you can't!
 
I was just like you for the last 12 years not really caring for improving my chops because all I cared for was groove. Since I started incorporating a routine for my technique, my groove all of a sudden improved since I have more control on what I'm doing.

Chops is as important as practicing groove since they are interconnected.
 
Screw up the fill and people might not notice, screw up the groove and everybody notices.
 
If you were listening to a chef explain how you could have your meal at the right temperature, but with no flavour...or full of flavour, but at the wrong temperature, would you accept that?

It's not about groove and it's not about chops, it's about making the best music you can possibly make. There is no magic ratio of g:c. Be as good as you can possibly be. That is all.
 
Never quite get why people can't seem to associate "chops" with players like Pretty Purdie, Jordan or Garibaldi.

Obviously never paid attention to their left hand ghosting or their hi hat work or their right foot. No chops? Please!! Surely you either jest, don't listen, or ascribe a completely different definition to the word "chops" than I do.

True, none of 'em play like Mangini, or Mayer, or Lang, but all of 'em have "chops".....of that I'll stake my last dollar.
 
A few things:
-- You do need to have a certain amount of facility, if only to have confidence in your own playing. And because you're a serious drummer, and you should be interested in improving all aspects of your playing.
-- It is as hard for people who are way too into chops to find employment as it is for people who aren't into chops enough. Harder, actually.
-- Stop thinking in terms of these binary, drumming-oriented words "groove" and "chops", and start thinking "music."
-- "Cover" videos are not real drumming. On an actual professional recording session, 99% of the flashy junk you see in the more polished videos would serve only to piss off your producer/employer, and have him making a mental note to beat up the person who recommended you.
-- Maybe read this. It's silly, but it kind of relates.
 
First things first... I don't know if this is a rarity, but I actually find enjoyment in keeping it simple on the drums

Not rare, it's a virtue in the professional world!

Going a bit off topic, awhile ago I was prepping for a live audition for jazz studies in university.

If you genuinely want to keep it simple, you should not immerse yourself in certain genres, Jazz being among them.

BTW, chops doesn't (necessarily) mean fireworks. Vinne's got great 2&4 chops.

Bermuda
 
Videos of drummers playing alone do not show how “good” the drummer is. In terms of showing talent as a drummer, they mean nothing.

Videos of drummers playing along with a music track are a little better at showing talent, but still fall short of showing how “good” a drummer really is.

If you want to play drums as a solo instrument, that is OK. They can be used that way. But they were created to be used as a foundation for music. How many people pay money to see only the drummer play. How many people buy records with only drumming on them.

Playing live with other musicians, creating the groove and maintaining the groove is what drumming is all about. We drummers are responsible for the foundation of the song. If the foundation is weak the whole song can and will fall apart. It is a great responsibility !

Drum fills and chops work good to fill in spaces in music when the other musicians are not doing anything to enhance the song. For instance playing a drum fill with lots of great chops during a guitar solo/riff or when the singer is singing is really a very bad idea. If you are playing with a great band with a great singer and they are making great music; usually that band only needs a good groove from the drums.

If someone is judging your drumming ability by your chops (drum fills) they are wasting their time.
Groove is king. Chops are fun.

Last night I was jamming with a bunch of musicians. This one guitar player got up and played and sang. He was pretty good. Except he kept wanting to speed up the rhythm of the song. Consequently I had to play an extremely solid groove to keep the band from speeding up. A little bit of the fun of playing went away. I played with very few fills. It became more of a challenge to keep the band in the groove.


Sorry for the long rant.


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+1e&ah on everything Jim said!
 
-- Stop thinking in terms of these binary, drumming-oriented words "groove" and "chops", and start thinking "music."

Beautifully put!

Ultimately, it comes down to maturity. Instead of figuring out what "type of drummer" to be, figure out why a certain drumming approach works in a particular musical style or setting. The type of drumming that gets YouTube views is very different from the type of drumming that gets your friend to ask you to play drums on his/her album (and it should be!). However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do both, or that learning one approach will somehow prevent you from learning another! Learning gospel chops won't hinder your ability to comp, and learning to play loud or fast won't hurt your ability to play slow or quiet. The ONLY thing that will hurt your ability to do anything is to not practice that thing.

You can enjoy playing a simple thing, beautifully, and you can enjoy improvising, and you can enjoy playing a thought-out, crazy-ass, syncopated, rapid-fire, heroic tom fill, crashing on the downbeat with all your might. The drummer who is mature enough to know when to do each of those things will have the most opportunities to play music.
 
Yeah...I used to worry about that stuff as well. It'll wear off.

Nowadays, if I ever begin to doubt my place in the drum world, I ask myself three things:

1) Am I having fun playing?

2) Am I better than I was last year?

3) Are there other musicians who want to play with me?

If those three things can be answered in the affirmative, I figure I can't be too bad off.

Then I drink a beer and JAM!
 
First things first... I don't know if this is a rarity, but I actually find enjoyment in keeping it simple on the drums, I actually enjoy playing less as opposed to more, from being inspired by drummers like Bernard Purdie, Steve Jordan and David Garibaldi.

Going a bit off topic, awhile ago I was prepping for a live audition for jazz studies in university. During that time period, I watched other drummers on Youtube perform for their audition tapes. When it was time for my audition day, I was exposed to those whose playing level far exceeded mine. I was frightened as Hell because, well first of all I wasn't used to seeing people my age play at my level (in real life) and both the drummers I watched online and the drummers I saw on my audition day used crazy fast licks and had mad chops, while my playing style was much more conservative.

Also, lately, my friends have been showing me drum cover videos in which the drummer, again, has fast licks, mad chops, and does a crazy fill every ten seconds. It's starting to become very demoralizing being compared to others.

In the past, I used to not work on chops at all 'cause I considered groove far more important. I figured that with working on groove exercises, chops would come naturally, but clearly I was wrong. Now, I consider chops to be of equal importance of groove, and I'm working on chops as much as my groove, but I feel the constant pressure for being exposed to so many people who are using mad chops to impress others. Like I said before, it's kinda discouraging because maybe my personal style is too simplistic for others.

Sorry if this seems like some tedious, dumb self-pity rant. I just need to know if I should stick to my original mindset and not worry about those other drummers or if I should just suck it up and take this as a message to work on my chops more than ever.

OK - I agree with you that this is a tedious, dumb and self-pity rant. However, don't be discouraged. Groove still trumps chops in almost all musical drumming situations. I think chops get more glorification than they deserve because they're merely only about 5% of your display on any given gig.

Think about this: Davey Tough (big band drummer from the 30s/40s) couldn't even roll. He would apologize to the circus acts he'd be playing for ahead of time telling them that he couldn't roll. Yet, he worked pretty steady for most of his short life, and was well respected by people like Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson.

I say work on your chops, but knowing when to use them is more important. If it never comes up musically, then it doesn't come up, and you're ok. If you listen to music that sells, there's very little "drum chops" going on, and its better because of it.
 
OK - I say work on your chops, but knowing when to use them is more important. If you listen to music that sells, there's very little "drum chops" going on, and its better because of it.

YES !


1) Am I having fun playing?
2) Am I better than I was last year?
3) Are there other musicians who want to play with me?

If those three things can be answered in the affirmative, I figure I can't be too bad off.

YES !


Originally Posted by toddbishop:
-- Stop thinking in terms of these binary, drumming-oriented words "groove" and "chops", and start thinking "music."


AND YES !





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I think most people associate chops with licks or fast technique, for me it's about control. Can you play a pianissimo followed by a fortissimo? That's chops for me.

Chops helps me control dynamics, move around the technique and play smoothly. To a certain degree it also includes speed but only up to a certain degree.
 
I fought with this as well, because frankly most of the time I do 2 or 4 count rock, skank, or punk beats, my fills are relatively simple and follow a linear or semi linear fashion. Once I started getting involved in the local music scene I had the chance to see the really good drummers and started discounting my own skills even though I almost always get compliments from them. In the end I just had to acknowledge that I have my own style and I am the drummer for my band. What I lack in chops I make up in groove, fluidity, and I hate overplaying. It doesn't mean that I don't try to learn new techniques, as I do as well improving the things that I already know.

Oh, btw, one of my pet peeves, I won't play anything on stage that I can't pull off cleanly. However I see some other local drummers playing things that are beyond their level and it is obvious in their execution.
 
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