Click Tracks

My application is a live band setting, and I want to be able to create click tracks and play them when I need to, sort of like set lists for click tracks.

Since I already have Audacity, I used it to make some click tracks for some cover songs we do and saved them as .MP3s, thinking that I can just run the .MP3. But, I noticed that when I play the click tracks along to the original recording of the songs to be sure that they do what they are supposed to, they don't always sync up completely. For example, they sound great for 50% of a song sometimes, then either the song or the click loses time. It doesn't make sense because I would think that if the click tracks were off, they would fall out of sync WAY sooner than that. When I listen only to the click, and only to the song, they both sound correct. But, when I listen to them together, it actually sounds to me like the original recordings are the ones that don't "stick" to the tempo. Is that possible?

Thinking it may be an Audacity problem, I've looked into other utilities for both Windows and Android, but experience a similar problem, and many don't offer a away to save click tracks as "songs". Maybe it would be better to have a utility that creates one from a song you "feed" it, but I can't seem to find anything like that.

If anyone knows of a good utility (hopefully, free) for Windows or Android that would meet my needs, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Transcoded files are subject to the interpretation of the Encoder and Decoder.

Store as Linear PCM (.wav / .aiff), which has a strict interpretation, and your synchronization issues should disappear.

Didn't help at all. Either studio recordings all fluctuate a bit, maybe even by design, or computer-generated click track makers are not accurate.

FWIW, I have played to clicks quite a bit, but this is the first time I've actually "tested" them against original, professional recordings. Makes me wonder if we sound like crap playing to clicks, and end up sounding like sterile robots, instead of grooving by ebbing and flowing to the rhythm between the "1"s of measures.

MrLeadFoot said:

Didn't help at all. Either studio recordings all fluctuate a bit, maybe even by design, or computer-generated click track makers are not accurate.

Click to expand...

Studio tracks that are made without a click track will drift. There's no way around it.

The solution is to get a cowbell and undersized T-shirt, and to make your own.

Ahhhh, I didn't think of that. I guess I figured all studio tracks were made with a click. But, then again, there may not have even been a click when the Doobie Brothers were in their hay day! ;-)

Not that we are only covering old tunes, that was just one of the bands I noticed it on. But, even some songs by electronic-heavy bands end up drifting (good description, BTW). But, most straight-ahead 4/4 stuff is ok. I guess that's the boring stuff, eh?

Some of these originals may not have been recorded with a click. Nothing to be done about that.

Whenever I make click tracks for songs I import the song into Audacity, match up the click, and then bake them both together by exporting that as an .mp3 which would rule out any possibility of the playback speed differing between sources (this also lets one easily figure out time signatures/use an irregular click in audacity).

Also, you might try adjusting the click up or down by just 1 or 2 bpm in different sections if it gradually phases out. Once I made a click for a song which genuinely switched between 128, 129, and 130 bpm during the different sections. :|

So, Porter, what you're saying is that you purposely make the clicks "lose" time to the music.

So here's what I decided to do, based on yours and KamaK's replies:

1) Went to songbpm.com to get a starting bpm range for each song

2) Opened one song at a time in Windows Media Player

3) Create a Click in Audacity, ensuring that I tweak until I get the tempo matched to the tempo in a main part the song, ignoring the song's straying from the tempo here and there

FWIW, the newest Audacity now allows decimal increments changes in BPM, which is nice. On the other hand, such minute adjustability suckers you into getting totally OCD about it, and I ended up spending a lot of time on these click tracks.

I am actually surprised to find how many recordings are not perfect in tempo. All these years of playing to them makes me worry about my own tempo now! Luckily, I also play contemporary worship music, because most places require click tracks. At least I know I get SOME practice keeping REAL time. ;-)

MrLeadFoot said:

Makes me wonder if we sound like crap playing to clicks, and end up sounding like sterile robots, instead of grooving by ebbing and flowing to the rhythm between the "1"s of measures.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is how I feel about it.

If you are playing a song live or recorded and there is a pre-recorded part in the song, then a click is needed. Or practicing with a click to learn something is also OK.

But I see no other reason for any musician to ever play with a click! Especially in a live band setting.


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MrLeadFoot said:

So, Porter, what you're saying is that you purposely make the clicks "lose" time to the music.

Click to expand...

I don't think so...? Here's a screenshot of what the Audacity file typically looks like.



That song has a pretty simple intro so you can easily see that the met is in time there, I just used trial and error to get the tempo (quarter note equals 125 for that track). From there I just keep going through the track using the "Generate click" tool and listening to sections to make sure it stays in time. Then I adjust the mix to my like and use "Export" to save it as an .mp3 (with both the click and the song in it) and that's what I play along to. If the met doesn't stay in time I'll just keep using trial and error until I've reverse engineered the original click track (obviously doesn't work with music that wasn't recorded to a click).

Porter, I said what I said because you said you tweaked a click track using 128,129, and 130 bpms to match a song. That means the song itself was not in perfect time, and you dummied down the click to also be "wrong". That's what I was referring to.

In my case, I want the band to be in time, so I made clicks for cover songs I now know were obviously not recorded with clicks. We cover the songs just like the originals, so it's not like we need to play along to the recordings of the songs themselves. I just want the band to be able to practice to the click. This will be interesting, because if we've been playing these songs like the originals, I bet we also drifted time. It would be nice if as we tighten up the tempo, we sound even better. ;-)

porter said:

Also, you might try adjusting the click up or down by just 1 or 2 bpm in different sections if it gradually phases out. Once I made a click for a song which genuinely switched between 128, 129, and 130 bpm during the different sections. :|

Click to expand...

This is commonly referred to as a tempo map, and may be implemented for various reasons, including to make a song feel more natural with (seemingly) imperceptible ebbs & flows. The advantage to that over simply having the drummer play live with his own organic feel, is to maintain a grid for easily tightening hits (if needed) or adding another part created elsewhere. If everything is made/played to a designated map - even by 'proxy' - it will all line up.

Bermuda

MrLeadFoot said:

In my case, I want the band to be in time, so I made clicks for cover songs I now know were obviously not recorded with clicks. We cover the songs just like the originals, so it's not like we need to play along to the recordings of the songs themselves. I just want the band to be able to practice to the click. This will be interesting, because if we've been playing these songs like the originals, I bet we also drifted time. It would be nice if as we tighten up the tempo, we sound even better. ;-)

Click to expand...

In some cases, the songs will sound quite different if played in strict time. Listen to Honky Tonk Woman, and note how radically the tempo speeds up throughout the song, until it's several BPM faster by the end, and very noticeable. I think if you played the whole song at the starting tempo - which is fairy relaxed - it would sound pretty slow overall. When I play the song, I start maybe a little faster than the original, and very gradually speed up at each section. By the end it's not quite as noticeable a difference (from start to finish) as the Stones, yet I'm able to introduce/build the energy that they did. A slightly more modern example, Smells Like Teen Spirit is all over the place, and in fact starts very relaxed and almost immediately speeds up before maintaining a somewhat more even tempo. Did either group deliberately modify the tempo? Probably not.

But don't get hung up on clicks and perfect tempos. It's much better to develop a very good sense of time, and you will be a more valuable drummer for it. Also remember that clicks do have their place in live performance, typically for playing to a sequence or recorded part, and/or to synch to video. A click isn't normally used just to regulate the tempo.

Most likely, if a drummer can't keep a reasonably steady tempo without a click, he will probably be replaced with one who can. :O

Bermuda

bermuda said:

This is commonly referred to as a tempo map, and may be implemented for various reasons, including to make a song feel more natural with (seemingly) imperceptible ebbs & flows. The advantage to that over simply having the drummer play live with his own organic feel, is to maintain a grid for easily tightening hits (if needed) or adding another part created elsewhere. If everything is made/played to a designated map - even by 'proxy' - it will all line up.

Bermuda

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, that's what I meant to say. It was just funny to me because 1 bpm is a very, very subtle effect. I often use 2 or 3 bpm jumps in my own "tempo maps" but if one uses a 1 bpm shift there should probably be a gradual process to it, which there wasn't in this song.

Also it's not uncommon for a band to track with a metronome for the first minute or so of a song, and then for the engineer to cut off the click midway through the performance, and let the band finish the tune on their own. I think this practice was pretty common in the 80s and 90s, but has fallen out of favor as producers (and consumers) came to expect a certain perfection.

Lots of synth and programming-laden pop tunes (Lady Gaga, et al.) use tempo adjustment tools in order to deliberately speed up their choruses by a bpm or two, just to add a bit of "energy" in the more powerful parts of the song. Throughout their Black album, Metallica actually recorded the songs in this way (the ability to adjust tempo after the fact wasn't available at the time).

I recently started using in ears AND playing to a click, I picked a few songs to start with and made note of the BPM and adjust it between songs.

I downloaded a metronome app on my phone and connect a 1/8" to 1/4" cable from the headphone jack into the mixer for my ears, I'm going to buy a Tama Rhythm Watch or a Body Beats metronome in the near future.