killer hand exercises I was taught

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
Pleeeeze watch my video.... I wanted to know if anybody else out there was taught this exercise, they really improved my hands 1000 percent. I already made a thread about this and didn't get much response, so I'm repackaging it, because I finally got a video camera and have been wanting to share this with everyone here for months now. Has anyone else here been taught this? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV4tNDMdoc
 
Hey Larry knew Ron real well.Nice guy
He studied with Sonny Igo Tommys dad
Ron did take a few lessons with me
 
Mr. Truth,
Ah you knew him too? Hey is Ron still alive? I didn't know about the Sonny Igoe connection. Ron told me Buddy Rich invented those exercises, but he could have been pulling my leg. You taught Ron as well? Ron told me he was either in, or almost was in Vanilla Fudge. Can you verify either of those claims?
 
Larry ,Ron had moved to the mid west some years ago,and sadly past on.
Sorry to tell you that.His Sonny Igoe connection was when Sonny taught at the Adler Building in NY
That method is the adler system it is totally not,as harmful as far as Buddy Rich using it well ?????????
dont think so,I should leave well alone,Like I said Ron was a nice guy
Ron live in his own world ,as far asVanilla Fudge no way.He was a Jazz Drummer and learning like us all. What you should do is PM me and I will give you my email as so we can talk more
 
Hi Larry,

With all due respect, it seems this exercise aims at building power/volume. But for a beginner like me, the main thing I want to improve is control and endurance, not volume.
 
Larry - no disrespect, but that seems like a horrible idea. Maybe you've never caused an injury doing this, knock on wood, but it seems to counter every reasonable and sensible technique advocated by the best of the best.

We're training nerves, aren't we...not just muscles? Learning to intentionally grip the hell out of the sticks will undoubtedly make it harder for less experienced drummers to *not* squeeze the hell out of them.

No way, not this cat!
 
To build my hands I was taught to snap all the rudiments in a slow and controlled fashion. I did like 2 rudiments a week for a year. I still use them to warm up as well as monitor my technique.
 
Larry - no disrespect, but that seems like a horrible idea. Maybe you've never caused an injury doing this, knock on wood, but it seems to counter every reasonable and sensible technique advocated by the best of the best.

We're training nerves, aren't we...not just muscles? Learning to intentionally grip the hell out of the sticks will undoubtedly make it harder for less experienced drummers to *not* squeeze the hell out of them.

No way, not this cat!

Actually, there have been quite a number of very highly regarded players/teachers etc, all of whom were amazing players and had great technique that taught this as a supplement to other techniques. This is, I thought anyway, widely known as a technique to build up strength, endurance and power.

I've never used it but I know that many great guys have with fantastic results. Maybe not for everyone, and maybe you can get similar results with different methods but I know that this has been widely taught.
 
Thanks for posting the video, Larry. I must say, you look very strained on the video. And I am not a fan of any technique that has us turn the wrist sideways more than necessary. If the technique has established merit, as suggested, make sure you are doing it correctly. Your hands shouldalways feel relaxed....

Apart from that, look into where you are hitting your snare, and maybe give it a tuneup?

Cas
 
Thanks for posting the video, Larry. I must say, you look very strained on the video. And I am not a fan of any technique that has us turn the wrist sideways more than necessary. If the technique has established merit, as suggested, make sure you are doing it correctly. Your hands shouldalways feel relaxed....

Apart from that, look into where you are hitting your snare, and maybe give it a tuneup?

Cas

Actually, this technique (which I studied myself) isn't about relaxation. The adler method is about control and strength. He's doing it right.

This technique is interesting for it's historical contribution. But, I have to say that this is a sort of "legacy" technique. There aren't many players of note who advocate or use it anymore except those who really believe in it for whatever reason. The thinking of how to teach hand technique has evolved and changed and, dare I say, improved.

This methodology is the opposite of the modern "be relaxed at all times" approach. Henry Adler was a great thinker, but certainly not much of a drummer (by his own admission), and this technique is akin to a medical student writing about surgery before he actually did any. In theory, it's fine, but it doesn't translate to music or musical drumming gracefully.

Please, let's not let this dissolve into the typical "this sucks" or "that sucks" thread. It's simply a different approach and it did indeed work for many drummers from the 40's through the 70's, in particular. INdeed, this method, along with the Moeller method, were the two predominant methods for decades.
 
I knew that this was going to raise eyebrows, and there are many ways to strike a drum.
There are a few posts here that support the idea, and a few that question it. Quite frankly I'm glad that there is some support here ha ha

Sciomako, This exercise does build control, power, and volume. I can play extremely light, with infinitely more control than I had before I did these. All I can relate is my personal experience. I feel in total control, able to play extremely lightly with precision, or much louder with the same precision. However the finger control exercises weren't included in this video, just the real killer exercises that gets your hands and wrists in shape. The finger exercises are where you get the real control from, but first the wrists and hands get developed. That's the concept.

Matt949: Yes it does feel unnatural when you first start it. You have to get past that, if you want to reap the benefits. You are forcing yourself into a certain form, and this tells me you are doing them right, because it does feel strange at first.

Casper, I couldn't agree more that your hands should always feel relaxed when you are playing. The thing is, this is not playing. It is strength and control building exercise only, and when you are trying to simultaneously strengthen and stretch muscles, it should create a sensation that could be described as pain, hence my grimaces.
I think it makes sense to have the wrist work like a hinge. During actual playing, the wrist doesn't assume the strict position of the exercise. You strive for perfect form during the exercise, during actual playing you do what comes natural, but you will notice increased power and control. I didn't quite understand the "where I'm hitting my snare" comment. I take it you don't like the ring, is that right?

Zambizzi, no disrespect taken. I am not one of these guys that gets upset if someone doesn't see things the same. That's why I put this video up, I want to debate! I want to hear opposing thoughts! I like a great debate, my feelings won't get hurt I promise!

Jazzin, Yours was the post I was most interested in hearing, I wanted to see if there was anyone else who knew of these. Thanks!

Thank you all for watching this. I have been wanting to do this for some time, and I've been wanting to hear everyone's thoughts on it. I will say it worked wonders for me.
I will put up another video explaining the other exercises, the one's that teach you the finer control of the stick. This exercise was really the "macro" exercise, there are some "micro" exercises which go along with it that complete the "system". Thanks again and keep the comments coming
 
So this is the Adler method. I wasn't aware of that juicy fact. I can't stress enough that you do not squeeze when you play, you relax relax relax. This is just to build the muscles, the relaxation and control exercises are separate from this one. The concept is this: First you strengthen your hands and wrists with that exercise. Then you start doing the other exercises that weren't included in this video that opens your hands up, and finally, after your hands and wrists are in shape and your hands are opening up, you work on relaxing and controlling the bounce. It's really a 3 pronged system, I only showed the 1st part. More to come, promise. Thanks again for all your comments. I've never seen this mentioned here and I thought it would be an interesting contribution and make for a juicy thread. I'm basically unoffendable so please, comment freely.
 
Thanks for posting Larry. I would like to see you play some beats/fills and maybe we could see how this technique has helped you.
 
We're training nerves, aren't we...not just muscles? Learning to intentionally grip the hell out of the sticks will undoubtedly make it harder for less experienced drummers to *not* squeeze the hell out of them.

No way, not this cat!

I doubt that the exercise is to be done in isolation from practicing loose, relaxed playing. An analogy - sprinters also lift weights and run medium distances to improve cardiovascular capabilities. They don't forget how to sprint because of it.
 
Thanks for posting Larry. I would like to see you play some beats/fills and maybe we could see how this technique has helped you.


I guess that's fair that you would want to see proof. I'm no JoJo Mayer that's for sure, but now that I have a video camera, I do plan on finishing what I started here by posting the other exercises. The thing is, I'm not a big fill guy, I like grooving, so I probably won't be able to dazzle you with all these intricate and mind boggling fills, only because I don't think in those terms. The fills I do play are a response to what is going on at the time I play the fill, I don't have a selection of pre thought out fills I whip out. The main thing here is the stick control I feel when I play, and knowing that what I hear in my head, I can duplicate with my hands with relative ease. That won't translate well to the person watching the video, but you should be able to get a feel for the control and power of the method to a certain extent.

I'm sorry if I'm running on, these lessons were just so valuable to me, and I wanted to put them out there for anyone who was looking for a way to gain more control of the stick. It's not for everyone, but it could be greatly beneficial to some...The main thing though, is the sharing of ideas here. That's why I'm really doing this.
 
I doubt that the exercise is to be done in isolation from practicing loose, relaxed playing. An analogy - sprinters also lift weights and run medium distances to improve cardiovascular capabilities. They don't forget how to sprint because of it.

Obviously not...that wasn't my point.

It's not easy to stay relaxed at all times while playing, even the "best of the best" admit that they still have to be conscious of staying relaxed. We also know that developing bad habits can also be easy.

This exercise counters both of those concepts in a negative way.

It's not something I'd even consider doing - regardless of any perceived benefits. However, I do lift weights and perform cardiovascular exercise to help my health and my drumming. These are disciplines that are entirely outside of drumming and won't foster bad habits and unnecessary tension in my drumming...on the contrary.

However, I do feel that sitting at a drum or pad, intentionally using tension, and striking a drum while tense is just a bad idea, for obvious reasons.
 
Obviously not...that wasn't my point.

It's not easy to stay relaxed at all times while playing, even the "best of the best" admit that they still have to be conscious of staying relaxed. We also know that developing bad habits can also be easy.

This exercise counters both of those concepts in a negative way.

No it doesn't. Being "conscious" means that we're not under the influence of habit. If you're conscious of being relaxed, then you are.

It's not something I'd even consider doing - regardless of any perceived benefits. However, I do lift weights and perform cardiovascular exercise to help my health and my drumming. These are disciplines that are entirely outside of drumming and won't foster bad habits and unnecessary tension in my drumming...on the contrary.

You're contradicting yourself. If you create habits of muscle tension (weight lifting) they are either surmountable, or they are not. What difference is there if your forearm is squeezing tight to lift a dumbell or a drum stick? Just because you believe - intellectually - that the two activities are divorced, how does your nervous system know?

Our bodies are capable of all kinds of different muscular tasks, from those requiring great strength and tension, to those requiring loose relaxation. A few minutes of exercises like these is not going to outdo many more hours of practicing relaxed playing any more than my squash game is going to wreck my Moeller stroke....
 
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