Which Blues drum set for an advanced beginner?

Obelix

Junior Member
I need help with a new drum set, and not sure what to look for.
A decent Blues set would probably suit.

I’m essentially a sax player, but when my son moved out 12 months ago and left an Ashton drum set behind I decided to give it and to my surprise I could play it. Enjoyed it for a while, but then started to feel the kit shortcommings, and decided to improve it.
It already had Rydeen cymbals, I added decent heads, a good Pearl pedal, cymbal stands, a comfy nice seat …

And now I feel that I may have outgrown the kit. It’s difficult to tune up the toms, the hardware is breaking up, I’m unhappy with the cymbals, the set is quite large, the ergonomics of toms positioning is all wrong and cannot be improved much.

I already made up my mind on the ride cymbals. It will be either Bosphorus Samba Ride or K Dark Medium Ride.
I’ll keep the pedal and the seat, and two cymbal stands.

The rest needs to be replaced. Probably smaller than this kit (the bass drum is 22”).

I was hoping for some good advice from you guys.
 
I'm afraid all I can offer is some common sense tidbits, since there are so many great kits available these days.

1: Budget first, then shop. How much are you looking to spend. How much are you willing to spend?

2: Cymbals > Shells. Figure out your cymbals and snare before going shell shopping. At the very least, figure out your hats, primary crash, and ride. Cheap kits with good cymbals sound far better than cheap cymbals on expensive kits.

3: Get the snare you want (get a nice snare). Don't compromise.

4: Buy used. Honestly, you'll pay approximately 50% of the 'new' price on shells if you take your time and buy used. I've seen forum members picking up Gretsch renowns for $700 and Catalina Clubs for $250.

Once you have a rough idea of what you want, post it and the vultures will pick it apart to let you know the good and the bad, and offer some similarly priced alternatives.
 
Cheers KamaK,

1: Budget first, then shop. How much are you looking to spend. How much are you willing to spend?
I would like to spend less than $2000 .

2: Cymbals > Shells. Figure out your cymbals and snare before going shell shopping. At the very least, figure out your hats, primary crash, and ride. Cheap kits with good cymbals sound far better than cheap cymbals on expensive kits.
3: Get the snare you want (get a nice snare). Don't compromise.

I could use some guidance on the hats and the snare. I can probably sort out the crash cymbal.
What are the most commonly used Blues snares and hats ?

4: Buy used.
It seems that I need some guidance with everything except for the ride cymbal.
What is worth waiting for on the S/H market?.

 
The advice given is good. when you say blues, how big is the group you play with? If it is 2-4 players, you might consider the "jazz" kits for drum sizes. Honestly, it is more about head selection and tuning for jazz/blues style. this is particularly true with the snare. A 5" deep snare with good wires, and a coated single ply head is a good place to start. I happen to favor Ludwig or Gretsch for that type of sound, but there are many good makers.
 
The advice given is good. when you say blues, how big is the group you play with? If it is 2-4 players, you might consider the "jazz" kits for drum sizes. Honestly, it is more about head selection and tuning for jazz/blues style. this is particularly true with the snare. A 5" deep snare with good wires, and a coated single ply head is a good place to start. I happen to favor Ludwig or Gretsch for that type of sound, but there are many good makers.

Thanks Mandrew

Agree KamaK gave me a good advice.
It's pretty embarrassing how little I really know about equipment though.

I don't play drums with anyone yet. Practising and playing along with mp3s.
But yes, I would like to play in small groups.

So 5" Ludwig or Gretsch with a coated single ply...I'll mark it down.
Any particular model Ludwig or Gretsch ?

Cheers
 
Firstly,you can play Blues on ANY drum kit.Drum builders don't sit down at the drawing board,and say to themselves....HHMMMM ,lets build a Blues drum kit.It's all about tuning and head selection.A 20x14 or 22x14 bass drum will sound best in that situation.Stay away from deeper bass drums...period.You need something punchy,and deep bass drums just don't do the trick.

Secondly,a decent snare is TOTALLY subjective.You can get great sound out of a used Ludwig acrolite,or a Pearl sensitone.Both can be had used for around 100 or a little more,US.

Cymbals,again,almost any brand of medium weight cymbals will do.I love vintage 60-70s Zildjians or Paistes for that typical blues sound.Zildjian new beats hats,and Paiste sound edge 2002 hats are ,without a doubt ,the industry standard

Nearly every drummer you ask here,will recommend the brand of drums...HE prefers,so forget brand loyalty.But used if you can,and stick with the major manufacturers,and put custom kits out of the mix,altogether

Lastly,there is no advanced beginner,thats like saying...almost pregnant.You're a novice drummer,and it dosen't matter how great a sax player you are.Drums are a different instrument altogether.In the beginning,they seem easy to play,but you'll soon find out,they are difficult to master.

Steve B
 
If it were me in your position I'd think about spending 500 to 800 on a kit and the rest on cymbals. Gumtree is probably your best bet for the kit. There's a few on there in the Perth area that could fit the bill. There's a Tama Artstar in Gidgie that looks pretty good with snare.

For cymbals I'd go new. You can rock up to the store and try everything out. I tend to like cymbals that have a good spread, that is hats pretty high freq, followed by crash and the ride lower...but crashable if you're gonna play a 3 cymbal set-up. Everyone might tell you to get the cymbals used, but that's a crapshoot. I like to try before I buy.

One way to do it is to get a cheaper kit, like the Artstar so you know what sizes you're gonna have, and then cruise into the store of your choice. You'll want to get all new heads for it, tops and bottoms. I usually frequent MegaMusic in Myaree. They're good blokes and are pretty helpful. Ask for Daz or Arun, (said like Arroon). Tell 'em Todd from Denmark sent ya. Not that this will get you any special deals necessarily but I've spend a bit of coin in there recently so they may hook you up.
 
Ha, ha, ha..."Advance Beginner" is more of a windsurfing phrase.
Where you are over the basic learning phase, and can go fast, but struggling with fluidity. Can't turns or water-starts, and struggling to get into straps...

I didn't know what the appropriate drummer's level is.
I've been playing 30 minutes a day for about 10 months.
"Novice drummer" works for me.

>>>A 20x14 or 22x14 bass drum will sound best in that situation.
Thanks, noted.

>>>.You can get great sound out of a used Ludwig acrolite,or a Pearl sensitone.
That should work for me.

>>>Zildjian new beats hats,and Paiste sound edge 2002 hats are ,
>>without a doubt ,the industry standard
Great. Exactly what I was hoping to learn.
I'll read up on these .

>>>they seem easy to play,but you'll soon find out,they are difficult to master.
Sorry if I left a cocky impression. I never thought they are easy to master.
I just surprised myself that I could play them at all.

Thanks
 
Cheers Todd

>>Gumtree is probably your best bet for the kit.
I'm glad you can see Gumtree here. Very practical.

There is MegaMusic in Wangara too. They are a bit closer. I buy stuff of them too, and can try the cymbals. The cymbals are funny. Two of the same kind sound different.

Appreciate all advice. Building the picture slowly.

Hmm, going top check that Tama advertisement now..
 
There is MegaMusic in Wangara too. They are a bit closer. I buy stuff of them too, and can try the cymbals. The cymbals are funny. Two of the same kind sound different.
..

That's what I mean. Pick what you like, because you can put your hands and ears to it. In my experience these guys will give you a bit to integrate your sound. That is if you purchase a cymbal because you like it in the store, but take it home an it doesn't fit what your going for they'll give your the $ value for another...or at least they should. I find the store to be a very hard place to get exactly what I want. The room makes more of a difference than the item.
 
Another helpful hint is to start a quickie spreadsheet.

Example:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hO91TmkvRqP0FME1mEDPnq0bRdDlmNAoP6F0RAxYZP0/edit?usp=sharing


This will help you make budget and give you a good idea of where you can trim.

My limited understanding is that almost any kit (jazz, rock, etc) can be used for blues, and that blues is primarily about touch (and coated heads for brushes). Possibly someone else can chime in that has more experience.

Just saw that your profile says Australia, and I'm afraid us lucky Americans will not be fully sympathetic when it comes to price information. For example, I can go out an buy a used Acrolite "right now" for $125 10 minutes from my house.
 
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Bearing edges. It doesn't matter what wood, what thickness, who made them and how expensive they were if the bearing edges are damaged or not smooth you can't tune them well. Same goes for out of round shells.

I agree with the advice about the snare. We all spend way too much time discussing, tuning and deliberating over toms, but the snare and bass drums are obviously the most important. You can get good sounds out of both easily with a bit of knowledge and some new heads and snares. I always put new snares on as the wires stretch over time.

Check out the drum tuning bible and the myriad of online videos to help with tuning.

Fortunately, with a budget of $2000 you can get some iconic top end kits:

Yamaha 9000 or original Maple Customs
Mapex Saturn
Anything by Ludwig or Gretch

In fact, the list of what to avoid would probably be shorter. If you get a decent Birch, Maple, Oak or acrylic shell (did I miss any) you can't go wrong. Exterior finish is irrelevant and doesn't affect sound much, if at all.
 
Bearing edges. It doesn't matter what wood, what thickness, who made them and how expensive they were if the bearing edges are damaged or not smooth you can't tune them well. Same goes for out of round shells.

I agree with the advice about the snare. We all spend way too much time discussing, tuning and deliberating over toms, but the snare and bass drums are obviously the most important. You can get good sounds out of both easily with a bit of knowledge and some new heads and snares. I always put new snares on as the wires stretch over time.

Check out the drum tuning bible and the myriad of online videos to help with tuning.

Fortunately, with a budget of $2000 you can get some iconic top end kits:

Yamaha 9000 or original Maple Customs
Mapex Saturn
Anything by Ludwig or Gretch

In fact, the list of what to avoid would probably be shorter. If you get a decent Birch, Maple, Oak or acrylic shell (did I miss any) you can't go wrong. Exterior finish is irrelevant and doesn't affect sound much, if at all.

I'd love to fly with you here mate, but not in Australia. Everything here is twice the price...full stop...even used. And the bloke is looking for cymbals too. You might get iconic Gretsch Catalina Clubs or Ludwig Elements, but other than that it's pretty slim pickings. Pearl is big over here, but Visions at $1200 is kinda tough to swallow if you know what I mean.
 
I'd love to fly with you here mate, but not in Australia. Everything here is twice the price...full stop...even used. And the bloke is looking for cymbals too. You might get iconic Gretsch Catalina Clubs or Ludwig Elements, but other than that it's pretty slim pickings. Pearl is big over here, but Visions at $1200 is kinda tough to swallow if you know what I mean.

Ah, that sucks then. I thought it was hard enough when I moved back to England from America. I can't move down under then. Not if its that grim LOL
 
Thanks a lot guys, I'll build a spreadsheet as suggested and slowly fill it in.
The way I see it, the cymbals and the hi-hat with the hardware will cost me $1000.

This is a summary of all your advice:

General
Buy cymbals and snare first then the shells. Wait for an opportunity to buy S/H
Look for new cymbals.
Obtain the drum tunning bible.

Snare:
5" snare if possible
Coated single ply head
Ludwig or Gresch could be suitable
Ludwig Acrolite or Pearl Senistone would work

Bass Drum
20x14 or 22x14 bass drum. Should not be deep.

Hi-hats
Zildjian New Beats or Paiste Sound Edge 2002 - industry standard

Cymbals
Any brand medium weight. Vintage 60-70 Zildjans good for that sort of music.

Some iconic top end kits:
Yamaha 9000 or original Maple Customs
Mapex Saturn
Anything by Ludwig or Gretch
Gretch Renown
Catalina Clubs
A decent Birch, Maple, Oak or acrylic shell all good

I'll now wait for an opportunity to get S/H gear.
Appreciate your advice very much

Cheers
 
Here is my preference.

Big crashes and crash rides, on the darker side.

Brass snare drum.

Birch or Bubinga shells, thinner the better. 22" bass drum. I would go with a 3 or 4 toms. One of the toms has got to be small.
 
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Here is my preference.
Big crashes and crash rides, on the darker side.
Brass snare drum.
Birch or Bubinga shells, thinner the better. 22" bass drum. I would go with a 3 or 4 toms. One of the toms has got to be small.

Cheers Sketchtrack

Big Crashes - I'll mark that too. That's the least clear area for me. I tried many crashes in the shops and nothing really got my attention.
Would a crash ride eliminate the need for multiple cymbals?

Bubinga, will read up on that.

You got me confused with the brass snare.
I remember my marching band days, where the snare drummer used the brass snare.
The sound was extremely strong.
 
You got me confused with the brass snare.
I remember my marching band days, where the snare drummer used the brass snare.
The sound was extremely strong.

Here's a good comparison of some classic snare sounds to help you decide. There are a few brass snares in the vid. Take a listen, and then have a listen to some of your favorite blues tracks, and see if you can narrow down what you're after. There's also a vid with some more modern snares for comparison.

If you can list a track that you like the snare sound on, we can certainly play "name that snare" and have a 6 page awesome-sauce argument about it.

Disclosure: I play an LB417 (anodized Nickel over Brass) so I'm biased and not in a position to recommend one over the other.
 
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Here's a picture of about as blues a drum kit as you'll ever need to see. This is Little Walter's band, I think it's Hound Dog Taylor on guitar, Dave Myers on bass and I don't know who the drummer is.

It looks like a Sonor kit, with a 20" bass drum, 16" floor tom, I can't see the rack tom.

A basic 4 piece kit with a ride, a crash and hats is what you want. It's how you play the drums that make it sound blues.

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