Drummers that can't tune drums.

I hate seeing moon gels or those plastic rings. I bare no personal grudge against anyone who uses such things, but it's my humble opinion that if you can't get the sound you want out of your drums without those things, then you have to work on your tuning methods. I've played drums for around ten years now, a little more, and when I first started I used these gimmic products, ever since I really focussed on tuning drums I can now get a sound I like without using any of that mess, even on cheaper drums.

As far as punch and depth, if you have so much trouble getting a sound you want, then you should buy drums more suited for the sound you like, rather than relying on external muffling devices.
 
I hate seeing moon gels or those plastic rings. I bare no personal grudge against anyone who uses such things, but it's my humble opinion that if you can't get the sound you want out of your drums without those things, then you have to work on your tuning methods. I've played drums for around ten years now, a little more, and when I first started I used these gimmic products, ever since I really focussed on tuning drums I can now get a sound I like without using any of that mess, even on cheaper drums.

As far as punch and depth, if you have so much trouble getting a sound you want, then you should buy drums more suited for the sound you like, rather than relying on external muffling devices.
This is true for most of the drums except the kick-drum, since you'll always get some nasty tones that you don't want. It's the only thing I dampen. Also, you don't always choose what kit you get to tune. The kit's in the studio are low to mid range Ludwigs..
 
Get up and move out front. Let someone else hit your drums. Listen while taking mental notes. At least that's how I've always done it.
Really, what I'm getting at is overuse of dampening/muffling.
They didn't know how everything changes once you step out front.

OK I get it. Yeah your correct !

I tune my drums to sound good and to project from the stage. I'm up against rock and roll guitars with Marshall amps, with no microphones for my drums.

I use plastic rings for small rehearsal rooms so I don't have to retune all the time. I wish I could get the plastic ring sound on stage, but it just does not project to the audience when the band plays.


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And it gets better. Guitarists and bassists have electronic tuners that work with extreme accuracy, easily and in next to no time with zero training. It takes mere moments for me to tune my 5 string bass and I don't even have to listen to it while I'm tuning it. And it stays in tune for weeks at a time in spite of daily playing (being in a temp/humidity controlled studio certainly helps but hey, that's where my drums are, too).

And then to make your day worse, consider the modern keyboardist. They never have to tune their instruments. NEVER. We're talking parts per million frequency accuracy and stability. I bought a Yamaha stage piano several years ago and I've never had to tune it. In fact, you can't!
I've never done it, but I understand that tuning a grand piano is no walk in the park, either.

It's a shame that no practical single tension system has ever been developed for the drums that truly worked. It's just a much more complex system than tensioning a string until a desired pitch is reached. The list of variables is much longer.

I wish...

And yes, most drum kits sound terrible. (Then again I think most drummers sound terrible but that's another story)
 
I have always found the drum tuning issue to be very odd and confusing. You can talk to 5 different drummers and run into 5 different ways of tuning. I can get a decent sound with trial and error with a pair of drum keys, but there are so many variables in head choice, drum sizes, room shape, mic'd or not miked, etc, it does seem unneccesarily difficult to explain to a new drummer.

And yet you look at the threads when a product like the tunebot came out, and 1/2 the posters just say "learn how to tune properly." Well, explain what properly is? lol.

Over the years, I've used many different methods, and read articles and books. I have a small book from late 80's called drum tuning, which if you read it now it's hysterically out of date.
I used to have great results with a product called the Drum Torque, which was a torque wrench. Once I learned the best sounding tensions for the heads after great trial and error, I used to write the torque numbers right on the heads in a sharpie, and could get my drums back to their best sounds in around 3 minutes, I really liked the consistency in sound I got. I do like the Tunebot, even though some guys might look down on me for using it. It's what I use now all the time. Again, I like consistency.
 
Tuning would all be solved if you simply removed all your bottom heads and just stuck the mic up into the drum. Bass drums get a feather down pillow, and the mic goes on the pillow. Toms sound good with gaf tape. Lots of gaf tape ;)
 
I really want to know:
How should drums be tuned for the audience perspective?

This is what I arrived at from my experiences. Just talking toms here. Doesn't really apply to bass drum or snare.

For unmiced:

I tune to a higher note than you would think. It sounds on the high side from the throne, even my floor tom. IMO, the overwhelming majority of unmiced drummers tune too low at gigs. You have to have a certain amount of tension on the head to fully excite the shell, so the shell can contribute to the tone. When heads are tuned too slack, the shell can't really contribute as much, and it's mostly just head tone. Head tone just doesn't carry as far. Yea it sounds great from the the throne, but that's the only place it sounds great.

In my experience from hearing others play my kit, a kit that sounds high tuned from the throne sounds well balanced in the audience. The bass freqs takes some distance to come together, bass waves are long. I think a 60 hz soundwave is close to twenty feet long. You don't hear the bass tones from the throne as much when you tune high, but you do in the audience.

The overtones that you get from an unmuffled drum that most people try and tune out...those overtones are the magic carpet that carries the tone to the audience. Even a tiny bit of tape will yield a wet cardboard tone in the audience. Those "stray" overtones are so freaking important to an unmiced drum, but most people try and eliminate them, resulting in the beloved (not) wet cardboard sound. It doesn't have to be like that, but it takes a sacrifice in throne tone that most can't deal with.

I developed a thing where I listen to the purity of the fundamental, get that as pure as I can, and just listen straight through the overtones. I ignore them, and simply focus on a pure fundamental, at a high enough tension. Overtones are your bestest friend if your drums are unmiced. Learn to embrace and love them is my advice.

For miced drums:

I'm not miced much, but when I am (last night I was) I still tune the same, with one caveat. I don't want any mics close to my toms. Overheads for me rather than close micing. That way I can get that lively sound that I love so much. If you want to tune low and muffle, as long as it's miced, it should be fine. Unmiced, tuning low and muffling is giving your drum tone a death sentence.

I run a full front head and no muffling on the kick. I position the BD mic halfway between center and edge, and about 4" away from the head. I don't have nearly as much experience miced compared to unmiced, so I'll stop here.
 
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I did not begin to play the drums until after I learned how to tune them. Or, I wasn't seduced by the trap kit until I applied the appropriate lipstick to the pig.

Being a guitarist/singer type for decades had cultivated an "ear" of sorts. And when the drums sounded like a cascade of road apples, I could tell, and it turned me off and away from the drums.

Almost on a whim one day I challenged myself to outsmart a hunk of wood, bolts, and Mylar. I began to tweak. Once I learned how to tune a single drum TO ITSELF, tuning a kit in intervals was easy.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Now when I hear a poorly arranged kit, I am keenly aware of it's detrimental effect on the quality of life.

Drums don't kill people; incompetent drummers kill people.
 
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I'm totally in agreement with Larryace on tuning for the audience. I tune mine tighter than you'd think too for the toms. I learned this years ago, when I started intentionally tuning my toms higher, so it'd be easier to play Wipeout. lmao. It used to be the last song of the night, and sometimes my arms would just be tired, so I wanted more rebound, to make it a little less work. It was a happy coincidence that they sounded great out front.
 
I'm totally in agreement with Larryace on tuning for the audience. I tune mine tighter than you'd think too for the toms. I learned this years ago, when I started intentionally tuning my toms higher, so it'd be easier to play Wipeout. lmao. It used to be the last song of the night, and sometimes my arms would just be tired, so I wanted more rebound, to make it a little less work. It was a happy coincidence that they sounded great out front.

Bonus, right? A higher tuned drum is much easier to play, and sounds better in the crowd. Win/win.
 
Overtones are your bestest friend if your drums are unmiced. Learn to embrace and love them is my advice.

Yes ! Thank you for the great ideas Larry ! I am going to retune my drums at the next gig.

And if the drums are miced or you are in the studio; I think maybe use something to slightly dampen the toms. And maybe only on the bottom head. Tiny piece of tape, maybe plastic rings on the top head, etc.


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It's pretty obvious Larry has never had to play in a disco cover band, or in a Ramones-type band. All this talk of higher-pitched ringy drums is just crazy.
 
It's pretty obvious Larry has never had to play in a disco cover band, or in a Ramones-type band. All this talk of higher-pitched ringy drums is just crazy.

This is actually a good point. The music would dictate the general tuning style.
 
I've been a hobbyist for 12 years and still can't tune my drums. I do struggle with pitch differentiation though, but have never had anyone show me how to tune and haven't found the method that works for me or my drums :(. One day I hope to understand
 
There are definitely guys who can tune low and get a really good sound. I'm not dissing low tuning. Wet cardboard tone I will diss all day, but in the right hands, low tunings can sound really satisfying. I'm not that good at it, because it's not the sound I am hearing in my head, plus playing on a tighter head is less work, but I definitely enjoy hearing others who can tune low well.

Acoustically speaking, higher tuned unmiced, unmuffled drums sound more like actual drums from a distance compared to lower tuned and muffled unmiced drums, which sound more like mud. JMO. The lower tunings work good in smaller rooms, but they don't carry in larger rooms with a lot of bodies.

Micing changes everything of course. Then you can do whatever you want.
 
The music would dictate the general tuning style.

I'm usually on stage with two to three guitar players, a bass player, a keyboard player and a singer.
Playing Honky Tonk Woman and each musician is trying to play louder than everyone else.
And me with unmiced drums.

Last month I played outside at a car show in the same situation.
So I need drum tuning that will cut through this so I can play loud when I need to.

PS: I can tell you one thing, my 1928 chrome on brass Super Ludwig Snare can always be heard.

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Micing changes everything of course. Then you can do whatever you want.
Not really Larry, although it does remove the need to "project".

Actually, I hear the term projection used often, but it commonly refers to higher end cut / head slap, rarely projection of tone. Acoustically, that requires a few elements to be in place, namely drums that are actually capable of producing a dominant fundamental, & having their own sonic space in which to operate.

Tuning for mic'ing, either in the studio or live, but especially live, is a skill in itself. Outside of the higher end pro circuit, & good tech's, I rarely encounter a drummer who has the slightest idea of how to tune for live mic'ing. Essentially, you have to tune to what the mic's are capable of hearing, & on a loud soundstage, that almost never includes a resolved sound. You also need to take into account how the sound engineer intends on driving your sound. Does he/she intend to drive mostly from the close mic's leaving the overheads as mainly "ambience", or does the engineer drive mostly from the overheads leaving the close mic's as (usually low end) reinforcement. The former approach being by far the most commonplace.
 
Not really Larry, although it does remove the need to "project".

Actually, I hear the term projection used often, but it commonly refers to higher end cut / head slap, rarely projection of tone. Acoustically, that requires a few elements to be in place, namely drums that are actually capable of producing a dominant fundamental, & having their own sonic space in which to operate.

Tuning for mic'ing, either in the studio or live, but especially live, is a skill in itself. Outside of the higher end pro circuit, & good tech's, I rarely encounter a drummer who has the slightest idea of how to tune for live mic'ing. Essentially, you have to tune to what the mic's are capable of hearing, & on a loud soundstage, that almost never includes a resolved sound. You also need to take into account how the sound engineer intends on driving your sound. Does he/she intend to drive mostly from the close mic's leaving the overheads as mainly "ambience", or does the engineer drive mostly from the overheads leaving the close mic's as (usually low end) reinforcement. The former approach being by far the most commonplace.

What's a resolved sound?
 
I've been a hobbyist for 12 years and still can't tune my drums. I do struggle with pitch differentiation though, but have never had anyone show me how to tune and haven't found the method that works for me or my drums :(. One day I hope to understand

If you don't mind, I'm gonna give this a shot. This is one way to do it. This is just for toms.

Put the drum on a carpet. Lay a fingertip dead center of the head (important!) and lightly tap the head, about an inch in front of a tension rod, with a stick tip. This will produce a harmonic sounding tone. Without moving your dead center fingertip, tap near every rod and just listen. Listen to the harmonics. Notice which ones are higher and lower. Select the purest best sounding rod. Notice the note it sings. Remember where that rod is by noticing the relationship to the head logo. Use that rod as a reference and tune all the other rods to it. Once they all sing the same tone, that's called clearing the head.

Once the head is clear, or in tune with itself, now you have to determine if your head pitch is too low for that drum, too high, or just right. Adjust if necessary and re-clear. I like to get the drum head even at a very low tuning, then bring it up slowly from there. Getting it even is key.

After that's done flip the drum and repeat.

OK both heads are cleared. Not done yet.

There is the pitch relation thing going on between the batter and reso. This is where the real fine tuning of the drum happens. Basically, there's 3 general roads to take, you can tune the reso head lower, the same as, or higher...than the batter. That's a whole discussion unto itself, and it is mostly personal preference.

OK pitch relationship tweaking....mute with your fingertip and tap the cleared batter near a rod, remember the note, even better try and sing it, and flip it over and do the tap thing on the cleared reso near a rod.... and evaluate if you like the pitch relationship. Does it sound like part of the same chord? Or is it dissonant? Do you like it? You kind of have to know whether you prefer the /lower than/same as/higher than/ relationship. This is where the real hours get burned up learning to tune drums and where your personal preferences lie.

Once your heads are cleared, and they are at the correct pitch for that diameter drum, and in addition, you have a complimentary pitch relationship between the batter and the reso going on...you're done....with that drum.

Now you have the rest of the kit to tune, and getting a pleasing relationship between all the drums adds to the task. With experience, you know where you like your toms pitch-wise and naturally go right to it.

Piece of cake. Walk in the park. Falling off a log. Shooting fish in a barrel....are all easier than tuning drums lol.

Phase cancellation involves two heads, you can't get phase cancellation on a concert tom. It's where the 2 respective pitches.....there's a zone where those pitches cancel each other out and the drum sounds castrated, hollow. There are multiple zones where you can get phase cancellation. The good news is that a good tone is pretty close. Adjusting one head will do it.

In my experience, tuning the reso lower sounds boingy. Tuning the reso the same as the batter is real nice, but reso higher than batter is what I go for, sometimes a full octave higher, sometimes a fourth or fifth higher. Sometimes I tune both equally, especially on the higher toms, but I stay away from tuning the reso lower on any of my drums.

Tuning the snare and bass drum are 2 separate discussions. Too broad to even tackle.

A few other notes, no more than a 1/4 turn when adjusting rods, small moves. I use 1/8 turns. Using 2 opposing keys really gives you a pretty good feel for even-ness. Rods that are lubricated tune easier, a sticking rod or anything that binds a rod makes it almost impossible to tune by feel. Think in terms of "pairs" of opposing rods. Like to me an 8 lug drum is 4 pairs of rods. 4 tuning planes. When I check tuning, I tap a rod, then I tap it's opposite rod. I do that with all 4 pairs, comparing pairs to each other. If a drum is out of tune, one of the tuning "pairs" doesn't sound like the others, and adjusting that pair of rods clears it. The 5 lug tuning on Gretsch rack toms was the only reason I'm not playing them now. That's not anal at all. I had some nice Renowns.
 
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