In jazz,what's a fill and what's just comping ?

palo

Senior Member
I'm trying to follow the advice heard in an interview to train my ears into when to fill in a jazz tune ..."get one jazz song and, playing quarter notes on the ride, try to identify and memorise where the drummer fills " Davis's Freddy Freeloader is given as a good example to practice on. Only I can't tell fills from common comping .If it was a straight 2 an 4 pattern ,like in rock ,anything deviating from it it would be a fill,I guess.But how can you tell in jazz...?help
 
Is the word ''comping'' short for something?
 
I guess a better question is: Why do you need to tell which is which? As long as it fits musically, why classify it as one or the other.
 
Is the word ''comping'' short for something?

^neatly done! Dre's answer here should lead you to what you need to know.

I guess a better question is: Why do you need to tell which is which? As long as it fits musically, why classify it as one or the other.

Because he's trying to follow some practice advice given by somebody else :)

Personally I'm no jazz cat, but for the sake of that practice routine I would say that as soon as the drummer plays something that breaks away from the usual drum pulse you could classify as a fill. Mainly this would be where the drummer stops playing the ride pattern. But the 'fill' could still incorporate the ride.

See, I couldn't say it better than Dre!
 
I get why you have asked this question Palo. Someone like elvin jones sounds like he is playing loads of fills but someone like Max maybe would play less fills and more time.

The answer to every jazz question you have will be in the best jazz book

Art of Bop by JOhn Riley. Work through that and try and get your hands on the recommended listening and you will end up with a greater knowledge of the style than any forum answer could give you.

I know your situation is tricky in terms of finding lessons and even sticks but Amazon.com will ship anywhere.

Hell man if you need to buy it. Ship it to me and I'll send it to you myself.

D
 
Is the word ''comping'' short for something?

to "comp" is to accompany

I'm trying to follow the advice heard in an interview to train my ears into when to fill in a jazz tune ..."get one jazz song and, playing quarter notes on the ride, try to identify and memorise where the drummer fills " Davis's Freddy Freeloader is given as a good example to practice on. Only I can't tell fills from common comping .If it was a straight 2 an 4 pattern ,like in rock ,anything deviating from it it would be a fill,I guess.But how can you tell in jazz...?help

the way I see it and the way the greats I studied with saw it is as one flow

I personally hate the word "fill" .... because it suggests that what you are doing is separate from whatever it was that you were doing before and after that "fill"

no matter what type of music you are playing you respond to the music .... in jazz the old school rule of thumb was that we are accompanying the the soloist ..... I for one do not believe that to be true.... I am playing more with others comping than the soloist .....I may respond once and a while to something the soloist plays.... but for the most part I am playing and flowing with the others comping and driving.... the piano and bass for example

to me there are no "fills".... especially in jazz .... of course that term has become so common that it is used to describe certain things so that some people understand what we are talking about .... but to me jazz has no "fills"

this is music of spontaneous expression .... and if that urge to express prompts you to play a flurry on the toms starting on beat 3 of a random measure and land on beat 2 of the next ... then you do so ... as long as you know where you are... it does not matter if you feel that it... (1 adds to the music .... (2 gets across what you intended to express..... and (3 you do not lose the quarter note

I urge all my students to stop thinking in terms of "beats" and "fills".... or in a jazz sense...time/comping and "fills"
....it creates a separation in your thinking process that you are doing two different things and as a result your playing sounds that way ....

listen to this song...Tony is not playing fills ... he is playing music ...listen to his solo even.... he doesn't really change from what he was doing when everyone else was playing ... just keeps playing music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bisN-z_4CnA

while studying with Elvin Jones .... he would tell me every time we were together .....

"don't play drums... play music "
 
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I'm trying to follow the advice heard in an interview to train my ears into when to fill in a jazz tune ..."get one jazz song and, playing quarter notes on the ride, try to identify and memorise where the drummer fills " Davis's Freddy Freeloader is given as a good example to practice on. Only I can't tell fills from common comping .If it was a straight 2 an 4 pattern ,like in rock ,anything deviating from it it would be a fill,I guess.But how can you tell in jazz...?help

I don't think that's a very good exercise. Just listen to the music, and/or play time along with the recording, and see what jumps out at you. You don't have to memorize anything, but you should learn to sing the melody of the tune.

If you listen to the original recording of FF, you can hear that Jimmy Cobb often plays the snare drum on beat 4, making that part of the time feel; the irregular stuff he plays on the snare drum and bass drum are the comping; the only things that could be called fills on that recording are the very strong punctuations he plays at the end of some choruses-- like at the end of the head, or when setting up a new soloist. So that's not a great tune to listen to to learn how to fill.

Comping, then = irregular things played while keeping time, while someone else is soloing.
A fill = a short drum lead played with a structural purpose, usually when no one else-- at least no lead voice-- is playing; setting up a syncopated figure, a new section, or filling a gap in the melody or rhythm section part.
 
I can't add much to what's already been said, other than to reiterate that it's not important to draw a distinction between comping and fills in jazz.

What is important is knowing what to play in terms of fitting the music. The form of the tune and the tempo will dictate these things. Jazz is not about randomly blowing chops or just playing any old thing; however, it is a great vehicle for creative expression within the form (huge). The players who are revered are appreciated for their taste and creativity and that means listening to as much of the music as possible and learning from the masters.
 
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