Double pedals = 1/2 the drummer?

Tell that to Louie Bellson, Steve Smith, Billy Cobham, Ginger Baker and many others that use/used double bass in non-metal settings.

Duke Ellington wasn't metal.

Let's add Dave Weckl, Marco Minnemann, Gregg Bissonette, Carter Beauford and Gavin Harrison just as many more contemporary drummers.
 
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For those of you against using the double pedal. Do you only use one stick too? Do you use your left foot for your hi-hat?

Yes, I agree, double kick can be overused, redundant, and sound out of ply in some contexts. However, why limit your musical expression just because some idiots make something sound bad?

Also, double bass helps your coordination and independence. Why is it that people seem degrade anyone who has a double bass pedal?
 
The biggest issue with the double bass drums is that the general drumming vocabulary doesn't contain too many phrases which truly employ the double kick sound or couldn't be realised by using a single pedal -- and the phrases in question are extremely specific to the metal sub genres. It seems to me that you'd need to develop a very large body of motor skills to be able to play phrases with very limited applications, and that's why I've never been inclined to take up the double kick pedal. Not enough bang for the buck!

Unless you know you want to play metal with authority, there's no reason why you couldn't or shouldn't train your left foot's technique and coordination by playing the hi-hat. The hi-hat sound has many more uses in all sorts of musical situations, and if develops the foot's role as an independent limb capable of playing various rhythms against and with the other limbs as opposed to the role of "the other half of my bass drum technique".

Very well stated.

Double bass is a huge amount of investment of time and effort for something that has very limited use, but high fascination. I'd rather spend my time and effort on learning to new clave patterns on my left foot. I have a Duallist for those infrequent times I need to crank out duggadugga or 16ths (which I can do at 240 bpm thanks to a very well-disciplined right foot) and I also have my left foot free for the hats or foot percussion.

As for "Do you play drums with just one hand??" argument: Um, no, I hold sticks in two hands. And I hold ZERO sticks in my feet!
 
Does having double kicks, make your single pedal technique bad?

No, at least not for me. I can play just as well with either foot. Well almost, the left still has some catching up to do:) I played in a metal band when I was younger, so I spent a lot if time working on double bass. After awhile I moved on & grew into other types of music. I still have the chops on the double (although not quite as fast as I was back then), though I don't really use it quite as much. I never used them as crutch though. I feel like its an advantage over drummers who never learned it.
If you can play it with one, do it! When the tempo gets beyond your range, use double-pedal!

There seem to be some who really hate fast bass drums, which is fine. You can choose not to use it & not have it in your music, but don't accuse players who do of cheating, or hiding poor technique. For those who do use double kicks, that's great too. The best ones are tasteful, creative, & can play just as well with single or double bass.

A good many drummers don't really utilize their feet to full potential. What has already been stated such as cowbell, double hi-hat patterns, keeping a groove with your pedals while soloing on top. The possibilities are endless, you just have to be creative to use double bass or multi-pedals in way which is complementary to the music, & hasn't been run into the ground by other drummers for the last 40 or so years.
 
Let's add Dave Weckl, Marco Minnemann, Gregg Bissonette, Carter Beauford and Gavin Harrison just as many more contemporary drummers.

John, all these guys you & DED listed, use the double pedal to add color & embellish what is essentially single pedal playing. And they do it fantastically well and NOT at the expense of great single pedal technique, so there's a difference.

...
 
Thanks for the replies so far guys. I'm getting the consensus is it's down to the player. Do you think of the double pedal as an opportunity to do stuff that's not possible with a single, or do you use them as an easy opt out instead of honing your single technique. I fall somewhere between the two. As some of the longer standfing forum members may know, I have a spinal tumor. This means that I suffer some disfunction in my right leg. Regrettably, this disfunction is random and cannot be predicted. Since diagnosis, I've practiced using the slave as my primary kick to stave off the inevitable. My right leg will go first, followed by the left. As a result of these exercises (must admit, I don't devote nearly enough time to this), my left leg kick timing has improved a lot, as has my hihat foot technique. As a disappointing counter to this, my right foot ability has reduced. Now I'm not sure if this is due to the advancement of my condition, or my reliance/concentration on the left side, hence my loaded question in the OP.
 
John, all these guys you & DED listed, use the double pedal to add color & embellish what is essentially single pedal playing. And they do it fantastically well and NOT at the expense of great single pedal technique, so there's a difference.

...

That would be Christopher actually haha!
 
No appologies needed Abe : )
 
I've played double bass/pedal for over 20 years now. Here's what I've learned:

1. It really only has uses in metal, big fills, endings and solos.
2. Those cool "cutting edge" bass drum techniques like doubles and accented phrases on the kick have even less application (pretty much solo only)
3. Most musicians associate double pedal with metal or at least fusion.
4. It takes a long time to get good at. It requires more physicality than other drumming techniques.
5. Many metal guys barely use the hi hat foot. Most of them just lock it in one position.
6. As a kid, I used to compensate for weak right foot doubles with the two bd's.
7. Other drummers talk smack about it. (but many secretly wish they could do it)
8. I still love it, but I find less use for it nowadays as I'm playing less full on metal stuff.

BTW, The fast double bass passages you hear in most songs are 16th notes NOT 32nd notes. In order for 32nd notes to work out the tempo would have to be around 80-110 BPM and most metal is faster than that.

I find it funny that whenever people hear a fast stream of notes they immediately say 32nd's. It shows a sloppy attitude towards the whole "music education" thing.
 
Double bass drum pedals mean both kick beats will always be in the mix. When I actually used to use two bass drums back in the day, it was very rare that the engineer actually had both of them in the mix. Pros: 1 bass drum = 1 mic, smaller set up area, easier to load in & out not to mention the storage issue....... Murdock the Drummer

Isn't there a recording issue with so much movement of air in the one bass drum, you know, reduction in sound quality?

I find it funny that whenever people hear a fast stream of notes they immediately say 32nd's. It shows a sloppy attitude towards the whole "music education" thing.

Technically it can be whatever you want it to be, but we simplify timings for convenience sake.

A money beat could be sixteenth notes on the hi-hat, and quarter notes for bass drum and snare drum independently, the whole groove would have the metronome mark at half speed as opposed to what it would normally be.
 
I love double bass I won't lie. However I do agree it is overused in metal and loses its impact if its constant throughout. When I use mine I like to go all out when people aren't expecting it and that is what gives it impact, using it few and far between.

My views on double pedals are, I believe you should not invest in one until you have been playing for a couple of years (2-3 years) this gives you a significant amount of time to build a solid right foot and allows you to develop open hi-hat ability.

Once you have a double, you should not use it to play beats that you can already do with one foot. This is a big no no.

Yes ok lots of things can be learned on a single that a double can do but to be honest if it is going to take months of hard graft and strain to achieve the desired result with one foot and a lot less time and strain with two, I really don't see the harm in it. I see people on here all of the time saying, it's all about the music, so hey if using a double makes it a lot easier to play with the same musical outcome I believe it is fine.

KIS, I use a double pedal to achieve things that I can't on a single, there are rhythmic capabilities that are almost impossible to the average drummer to learn on a single pedal and it goes back to my age old example, I'm pretty sure most drummers wouldn't strain to use one handed rolls at high tempos instead of using 2 hands so it should be the same for the feet.

In my opinion, my double pedal has made me double the player.
 
As for "Do you play drums with just one hand??" argument: Um, no, I hold sticks in two hands. And I hold ZERO sticks in my feet!

True, except pedals are supposed to be extensions of the feet, just as sticks are extensions of the hands.
 
BTW, The fast double bass passages you hear in most songs are 16th notes NOT 32nd notes. In order for 32nd notes to work out the tempo would have to be around 80-110 BPM and most metal is faster than that.

I find it funny that whenever people hear a fast stream of notes they immediately say 32nd's. It shows a sloppy attitude towards the whole "music education" thing.

Um, yes, Mike Giles was playing brief 16ths flurries in that (non metal) tune I posted. It's an 8/8 rather than a 4/4 ... or something like that ... guess I'm just a sloppy gal :)

And yeah, JT, I agree that the issue is that they lose impact if overused. I really enjoy the way Damon Che uses them with Don Caballero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlY5_5iZjWk

I don't like heaps of double kick because I prefer not so much action going on with the bottom end (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
 
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Oh dear and I thought this thread would stay clean =P
 
Double kicks are like spices. Used in the right amount they sound great but we all know what happens after too much vindaloo the night before ... that's right ... too much going at the bottom end, and it just end up making a big mess!
 
Yes, I agree, double kick can be overused, redundant, and sound out of ply in some contexts. However, why limit your musical expression just because some idiots make something sound bad?

This. Saying Double bass is bad because some people over us it is like saying the snare drum is bad because *insert a drummer you don't like* plays 2 and 4 badly.

Plenty of drummers have been accused of over playing with out double bass, but that doesn't mean we all give up the drum kit too.
 
Double kicks are like spices. Used in the right amount they sound great but we all know what happens after too much vindaloo the night before ... that's right ... too much going at the bottom end, and it just end up making a big mess!

YES!!

Exactly. It's a spice. It's something nice to add in here and there.
 
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