My Ludwig Family...

Interesting vid's! Thanks for the gig vid's Zam. Good solid stuff there from you, but I couldn't catch the wardrobe malfunction.

Kit comparison video was interesting. First I listened through my computer speakers, then through some random cans I had around at the time, then finally through my reference cans. On the first two listens, the Slingerland was clearly behind the game, toms on the vintage Ludwig had fractionally more tone than the modern version, but the modern bass drum seemed fuller. Things changed though when I listened through my reference cans. The modern Ludwig bass drum delivered more upper bass frequencies, but the vintage Ludwig delivered equally pleasing lower bass frequencies. I'd call that an even match. The toms however are a different story, those vintage Ludwig toms completely kill the modern version, especially the floor toms. If I were Ludwig, I'd be slightly sharpening the reso bearing edge to offer a touch more sustain & tone. This would bring them closer to the vintage performance, & go a long way towards getting past the superior sonic properties of the vintage shell. Of course, the very next vintage shell you A-B could very well sound like crap. if nothing else, at least the modern stuff is more consistent. QA issues aside.

Your drum kit look and sound very good Vinnie !

Deathmetalconga said:

I would suggest a cocktail-inspired setup which would require minimal conversion. Use one of your 16 floor toms as a combination tom/bass drum. Just get a conversion bracket that will attach your bass pedal to a couple of the floor tom legs. HB Drums would probably sell you one a la carte. You'll also need to modify a pedal to strike upwards.

You'd still play seated and you'd have to decide what all stands, cymbals and toms you'd like. At the very least, you'd basically be cutting out one of the bass drums.

I have seen a few of these converted kits and they sound swell. They don't have quite the compactness or cool factor of real cocktail drums, but they require minimal investment of time and money and there is relatively little technique that must be re-learned, unlike a standing cocktail set.

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Great ideas, thanks! If I setup the floor tom as a cocktail kick/floor tom, all I would really need is a snare, hats, and *maybe* a small crash/ride. Maybe I could find a seriously long floor tom leg out there somewhere, which I could use to clamp all of the cymbals and snare to, removing the need for almost all of the hardware that stuff would require. Then all I'd need is the converted kick pedal, a throne, and a hi-hat stand. I could invest in the really lightweight stuff for those items. Hmm...now you've got me thinkin'!

Deathmetalconga said:

Some people mistakenly call this modification a cocktail drum, but for nose-in-the-air purists like me, if you ain't standing, it ain't cocktail.

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True dat! I played Louie's cocktail kit a couple of times, a few years ago. I loved the sound of it and it was really fun to experiment with such an unorthodox setup. It wasn't easy to play that kick/floor tom standing up though! Also...if you hit the kick and floor tom at the same time, you cancel out the note! It's rare that I'd do that though, thinking about how I play.

keep it simple said:

Interesting vid's! Thanks for the gig vid's Zam. Good solid stuff there from you, but I couldn't catch the wardrobe malfunction.

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Thank ya. I could be mic'd better so I can actually be heard clearly...but I have to hit so incredibly hard w/ this band, that a LOT of the subtlety gets lost...some of the accuracy and control, too. It's a WIP...a good start to a project that's only 6 mo. old, or so.

keep it simple said:

Kit comparison video was interesting. ... On the first two listens, the Slingerland was clearly behind the game

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Man...I dunno, you guys...I really liked the tone coming out of the Slingerland kit. It's a bit dry...but it sounded sweet to me. Naturally, the Ludwig kits kicked its ass, though.

mind_drummer said:

Your drum kit look and sound very good Vinnie !

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Thanks, man!

Here's a vid of our last outdoor show, at a huge corn maze and amusement park, here in the area:

"Made Man"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsoxZW8IFmE

It was a lot of fun. They started a huge bonfire and there were a couple hundred folks there, milling around, trying to figure out what we were doing there. Pretty challenging to get the sound half-decent, too.

zambizzi said:

Great ideas, thanks! If I setup the floor tom as a cocktail kick/floor tom, all I would really need is a snare, hats, and *maybe* a small crash/ride. Maybe I could find a seriously long floor tom leg out there somewhere, which I could use to clamp all of the cymbals and snare to, removing the need for almost all of the hardware that stuff would require. Then all I'd need is the converted kick pedal, a throne, and a hi-hat stand. I could invest in the really lightweight stuff for those items. Hmm...now you've got me thinkin'!

True dat! I played Louie's cocktail kit a couple of times, a few years ago. I loved the sound of it and it was really fun to experiment with such an unorthodox setup. It wasn't easy to play that kick/floor tom standing up though! Also...if you hit the kick and floor tom at the same time, you cancel out the note! It's rare that I'd do that though, thinking about how I play.

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If you really wanted a traditional cocktail-style set, but played seated, mount cymbals & etc. onto the floor tom. I can sell you a couple of those LP percussion claw mounts cheap to attach to the rim, then you could put cymbals and stuff on them. I use a 14-inch Sabian bottom hihat for a dwarf ride. Moving everything - or nearly everything - to the floor tom/bass drum is very cocktail, even if you are seated. It would be a fun project to convert your drum set to a busker. Another option is to mount stuff to the hihat stand.

Deathmetalconga said:

If you really wanted a traditional cocktail-style set, but played seated, mount cymbals & etc. onto the floor tom. I can sell you a couple of those LP percussion claw mounts cheap to attach to the rim, then you could put cymbals and stuff on them. I use a 14-inch Sabian bottom hihat for a dwarf ride. Moving everything - or nearly everything - to the floor tom/bass drum is very cocktail, even if you are seated. It would be a fun project to convert your drum set to a busker. Another option is to mount stuff to the hihat stand.

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Cool, I might take you up on the clamps. It would be a fun project...been thinking about it for a while, since there's a potential acoustic project I might want to get involved with, and I'd need something really minimal to pull it off well. I wanted to do some busking this past summer too, but I got way too busy with work and other music projects.

I might want to use a bigger ride...either my 18" or 19" crash...but they're both light and thin. I think it'd be prudent to mount the snare to the hi-hat stand and the ride off of the floor tom. I guess I'd just have to go for it and see how it plays, to find the best config.

I think I'd have to keep it a seated setup, since my floor tom is only 16" deep. I couldn't imagine trying to play it standing up, since it'd have to be low enough for the kick pedal to reach it.

zambizzi said:

Cool, I might take you up on the clamps. It would be a fun project...been thinking about it for a while, since there's a potential acoustic project I might want to get involved with, and I'd need something really minimal to pull it off well. I wanted to do some busking this past summer too, but I got way too busy with work and other music projects.

I might want to use a bigger ride...either my 18" or 19" crash...but they're both light and thin. I think it'd be prudent to mount the snare to the hi-hat stand and the ride off of the floor tom. I guess I'd just have to go for it and see how it plays, to find the best config.

I think I'd have to keep it a seated setup, since my floor tom is only 16" deep. I couldn't imagine trying to play it standing up, since it'd have to be low enough for the kick pedal to reach it.

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It is possible to make it work standing with a shorter floor tom. DW and other companies will sometimes stack the snare on top of the floor tom, leaving inches of space between them. Of course, that makes the floor tom a bass drum only, but it does move the snare to the center of the set. I can tell you one of the most difficult things about adapting to the cocktail-style setup is having the snare way off to the side. I'm sure you'll adapt, though, to whatever setup you make.

There are some videos on YouTube showing compact sets where the bass drum is converted to a bass/floor tom in a seated set. This fellow mistakenly calls it a "cocktail kit" but it's a neat setup no matter what you call it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH_WxfJfYNs

Love the 'family' bud.

After letting those Ludwig's go I started to regret it. And the sound of them, especially the bass, stayed in my head. I finally had to break-down and get another set...got them a few weeks ago...same sizes except the bass is 14" deep.

Signals said:

Love the 'family' bud.

After letting those Ludwig's go I started to regret it. And the sound of them, especially the bass, stayed in my head. I finally had to break-down and get another set...got them a few weeks ago...same sizes except the bass is 14" deep.

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Haha...I knew you'd regret it! That sound just gets inside of your head. I bet the 24x14" sounds killer, too. I like the 16" depth, even though it's not as easy to play. I think it lets me lay into it the kick and get just a bit more oomph, in really loud settings.

They look great...really classy, man!

Deathmetalconga said:

It is possible to make it work standing with a shorter floor tom. DW and other companies will sometimes stack the snare on top of the floor tom, leaving inches of space between them. Of course, that makes the floor tom a bass drum only, but it does move the snare to the center of the set. I can tell you one of the most difficult things about adapting to the cocktail-style setup is having the snare way off to the side. I'm sure you'll adapt, though, to whatever setup you make.

There are some videos on YouTube showing compact sets where the bass drum is converted to a bass/floor tom in a seated set. This fellow mistakenly calls it a "cocktail kit" but it's a neat setup no matter what you call it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH_WxfJfYNs

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Yeah, I hadn't thought about that but I do remember that being weird, when testing out a cocktail kit. It seems like I could mount the snare to the left of the kick/floor tom, if I ran a clamp off of the inside floor tom leg. I'd buy a 12" snare or something small, so it's easier to pull off. I'll have to work up one of those Kit Builder layouts to post here, to visualize better.

I'll take a look at the vid when I get home, thanks!