Switching from rock to other styles

I played in rock bands for a long time and now I'm in a band that plays loungey music - soul, jazz ballads etc. After a year, I still find rock much easier and more natural to play. I don't have to hold back and can just go for it.

Have you shifted from rock to other styles? How have you found it? What have been the main challenges?

I was fortunate to study with now a long time friend who first heard me playing Rock (dbl bass) fills etc. He was a gospel/funk drummer and I was blown away by all the ghost notes, odd signatures and hat work he would lay down.

The hardest thing for me was getting my left side to play patterns not typically played in straight Rock or Metal formats. Ghost notes were always a challenge because it's a "feel" thing that I was not used to at all.

If I had to start all over again without having a teacher right by my side, I would pick up anything David Garibaldi and study my butt off.

The best thing to do is exposure. Get into a lot of diverse playing situations that pretty much force you to learn the idioms. This is not limited to different styles, but also different dynamics. I have learned a lot in the last year playing in a setting where my highest volume was less than half of my usual normal volumes.

Listen to the style of music you are playing, that will definitely help you to be authentic. Get lessons if possible.

alparrott said:

Listen to the style of music you are playing, that will definitely help you to be authentic. Get lessons if possible.

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DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!

The hardest thing about any style for me was learning to play with an authentic appropriate feel. Sure, anyone can hack their way through Riley's "Art of Bop Drumming" or the Drummer's Collective's "Afro-Cuban Rhythm For Drumset" and learn the coordinations, but to play with the very soul that embodies the groove takes some exposure to both listening to the style AND playing quite a bit with people that play that particular style. Thank goodness for CDs and clubs that host jam sessions...

The reason I ask is that, of all the genres, rock is maybe the easiest to play (putting aside the more challenging sub-genres).

The rhythms are simple, hence the name ("rock" meaning to move back and forth, and we all know a couple of popular activities with that kind of motion). You can swing the sticks freely. It's all very natural.

I was keen on jazz from early on and used to play along with jazz and fusion records, so I've long used ghosts and ruffs, and that helped me adjust to more laid back music. But we all know there's a world of difference between playing along with records and band play.

For drummer, soul, blues and RnB all all natural cousins of rock, but there's still adjustments to be made. I've definitely had to take a chill pill when it comes to kicks and backbeats; it's a lot smoother, the accents less pronounced.

As for bop and Afro-Cuban ... hahahahaha! Caddy, I'm just musically moving interstate, not to another planet

It's just a matter of exposure. We have been listening to rock (at least from the radio) all our lives so it's quite natural for us to think it's easy. If we had listened jazz the whole time it would be the other way around. And for some of us it actually is that way. So, like has already stated before, listen to the new genre (a lot). Check out tabs and then tab some yourself to make that visual part of your brain click and to share some processing power. =)

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Awesome question, Polly.

I cant speak for anyone other than myself and for me, the musical journey began with Rock, so it is never very far from my heart even though I think I've moved on along as a musician.

Growing up listening to the power and energy of Zep and Purple, and Sabbath, the sheer harmonic and compositional brilliance of the Beatles was so completely soul satisfying...

UNTIL.....

sitting around one afteroon 'ol Tripps stopped by and casually strummed a G major 7th on a guitar that was lying about.
My musical universe did a 180, and I went of a wonderful voyage of discovery of the Allman Bros, Johnny Winter, Muddy Waters, BB king, Stevie Ray Vaughn and all the blues all the way back to Robert Johnson and back,

up UNTIL..

Steely Dan laid the Aja egg!. Musical intellect meets pop. How could that happen??!! Make great music and disguise it as pop, so that people hear it. Purdie's groove, i wanna play Green Earrings, LIKE THAT!

.... UNTIL...

My friend Sean brought over Weather report's Heavy Weather album one fine day, which caused a minor explosion in my brain. My bandmates and I listened to that album ( yes folks, I mean LP ) non stop for about 18 hours, and Jaco blew onto the scene, and became my musical guiding light..

UNTIL...

I heard Coltrane's Love Supreme, and Miles' Bitches Brew, and so on and on..the journey continues

My playing has reflected the changes in my listening tastes to a large degree, but i listen to a lot more stuff that i can possibly play. Some stuff, I want to listen to, but never play.

Playing rock now, surprisingly isn't something I enjoy as much. ( or can play that well, either ). I lose interest very quickly. I have had to pull off a couple of short tours playing music that didn't stir my 'playing' juices. And unlike you, I find it difficut to play, because so much of it is the passion & energy you bring to your playing.

Rock is the hardest genre to fake, IMO.

So yea, to answer your original question, for me its been a slow evolution, rather than conscious thought. I sometimes envy what a lot of good players, specially the sessions cats have; the where with all to play any style, like they grew up with it, at the drop of a hat..

.. BUT

I also think, if you listen closely to their playing or any drummer's for that matter, it always reveals a trace of their origins and musical dna. You can run but you cant hide.

Did I answer you question? I think not : )

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i need to learn various central/southern american styles myself. i have a basic idea (i know all the stickings), but there's a big difference between knowing how to play something and actually playing it with authenticity.

the hardest thing that i find when learning new styles? trying to stop all the other styles i know from creeping into the mixer.

Yep Rock drummer here, that's my evening job, but what's life is there isn't any varity. Jazz/Samba/Funk and my guilty pleasure Pop music.

aydee said:

I also think, if you look closely to their playing or any drummer's for that matter, it always reveals a trace of their origins and musical dna. You can run but you cant hide.

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Very true (great post BTW). Even Bill Bruford, after a decade of immersion in jazz still carried rocky bits and pieces around with him.

One time a rock session drummer filled in at a bop gig with my sister's ex. It was interesting to compare him with the usual bop guys.

I spoke with him about it after the gig and he said it was the first time he'd played jazz. He swung but played much more cleanly than the other drummers, much less comping and less of a wow factor. He also didn't play so many of those cool woody rimshots all over the kit or small crash accents. It was all clearer and more definite. I liked his playing a lot, but it wasn't authentic.

Funny ... your start was so similar to mine - Beatles --> Purple --> Sabs --> Zep. Three things turned my head around ...

1) A friend playing his big brother's Larks Tongues in Aspic. I hated it with a passion. Too much passion. Something about it stuck. And ...

2) I couldn't concentrate on school work ...

Oh yes ... especially when music with lyrics was playing. So I asked the guy in the record shop for instrumental music and he recommended Birds of Fire. I didn't like that much either but that was the only instrumental music I had and my ear became accustomed to it ... and they were ridiculously exciting.

Those factors combined to make me curious about that weird record (LTIA) I'd heard years before. Next minute I had all their albums. Then my sister started dating jazz musos and the rot set in ...

I became a rock drummer with ghosts and ruffs

With all this (valid) talk of authenticity, what do you see as the main qualities of various genres that make them authentic? We could do a little workshopping here.

Pollyanna said:

Funny ... your start was so similar to mine - Beatles --> Purple --> Sabs --> Zep. Three things turned my head around ...
)

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Lets not forget Stomu Yamashta and Adrian Belew.

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aydee said:

Lets not forget Stomu Yamashta and Adrian Belew.

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Check. Check.

Weather Report. Check. Steely Dan. Check.

We might differ in that I loved British art rock. I was a fan of Queen before hardly anyone knew of them after seeing them play Liar on a Saturday morning music show. It blew my mind. I was also really keen on, um, Supertramp, er, 10CC and, ahem, Elton John (before he blanded out). I never got the hang of cool.

Oh, not to mention sex gods like David Bowie, Jimi and Jimbo & The Doors.

Pollyanna said:

With all this (valid) talk of authenticity, what do you see as the main qualities of various genres that make them authentic? We could do a little workshopping here.

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playing the drums in such a way that it sounds like it could have been on X album by Y artist and sounds fitting with the context of the music. i don't know, this is in the realms of 'artsy' talk. i know what i'm trying to say, i'm just too tired to work it out!

Okay, just to put together some thoughts on the difference between rock drumming and some other genres:

Nodiggie: I was fortunate to study with ... a gospel/funk drummer ... The hardest thing for me was getting my left side to play patterns not typically played in straight Rock or Metal formats. Ghost notes were always a challenge because it's a "feel" thing that I was not used to at all.

Me: For drummers, soul, blues and RnB are all natural cousins of rock, but ... I've definitely had to take a chill pill when it comes to kicks and backbeats; it's a lot smoother, the accents less pronounced.

Me: it was the first time he'd played jazz ... less comping and less of a wow factor. He also didn't play so many of those cool woody rimshots all over the kit or small crash accents. It was all clearer and more definite.

Nothing too artsy, toddy/Marlon

hah i actually totally misread what you wrote. specific genres, no problem. i'll post something later after i've slept keep it going!

Hmm, it looks like most drummers who start with rock stay put.

oh damn, i was going to write something out but forgot about it (i get distracted by my practice). i'm having a lesson with pat on monday so perhaps he can let me know in a less artsy way, haha.

Well, I went from playing almost strictly classic rock (ACDC, The Who, Zeppelin, Hendrix), to mainly metal (Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Maiden, Sabbath). But, I don't know if that really constitutes a change in style, rather just getting heavier and faster.

it definitely constitutes a change in style in my opinion. you'd be unlikely to hear dave lombardo blitz off some 16ths while angus does a solo or something. though granted i guess many people just see heavy music as 'heavy music'.