How were drums taught back in the day?

mattinpdx

Junior Member
If you had took lessons in the 40's or 50's, how would that differ from the way you would be taught today?
 
you would learn to swing

which is a huge aspect missing from most lessons today .... mostly due to the fact that the people teaching for the most part cannot swing
 
This is a great idea for a thread. I am very curious to hear from the older drummers in the group and get their experiences on how lessons are done these days.

I remember reading an article/interview on Joe Morello written by that guy that wrote Beyond Bop Drumming, who was actually a student of Joe's. His experiences on taking lessons with GL Stone are just fascinating to read.

Oh right, because rock was still evolving and jazz was the popular music.

I had a big "ah-ha" momenta while back while talking to an old jazz cat. He was 86 and played with the Dixieland band full of retirees that my wife and I hired for our wedding. He was actually on vacation for the wedding but I did have a great time chatting him up at one of their gigs. He recalled that back in Michigan, where he was from, there used to be some great Jazz music "then that Rock'n'roll got popular..." he added.

Wow, just have been around long enough to describe something that most of us can't remember NOT having as "that rock'n'roll"
 
Back in my day, 60s 70s I hung with lots of other bands and musicians and not one of them, except keyboard players, ever had a lesson. The trend seemed to be that you learned by listening to records (remember them) and made a best guess at what the drummer was playing, then you worked it out for yourself how to play it. Hardly two drummers played the parts the same.

Perhaps that is why a lot of drummers from that era, in Britain anyway, had such individual and recognisable styles. Or were rubbish, like me.
 
The trend seemed to be that you learned by listening to records (remember them) and made a best guess at what the drummer was playing, then you worked it out for yourself how to play it.

Uncle Larry has a great story of trying to learn a Deep Purple tune, I think it was Fireball, off the record. He didn't know that Ian Pace used a double kick on the record so he ended up learning to play it with one foot.
 
I started studying in the mid 70's and my teacher was a swing player. He had me work through Syncopation for the modern drummer. He had me play a swing pattern on top. Great book and he was a great teacher too. He was wise enough to understand my heart was into rock but knew I needed to be able to swing, not that I can that well but I really appreciate the time spent learning and just picking his brains.
 
This is a hard question to answer. Because I don’t know how drummers are taught today.

I think the main difference in teaching would be the difference that exists in types of music from then and now.

I learned to play about 1955. My Dad taught me to play 1940’s big band music. I learned to play like Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. (Yeah, including the swing).
I was taught traditional, German grip.
I was taught to slightly tilt my snare away from me.
I was taught to practice the 26 essential rudiments.
I was taught to read drum music. (Which I can't do anymore)
I was taught to practice on a pillow for a short while until I understood how to lift my sticks off the drum head. And how to use my whole arm, wrist and fingers. This has helped me a great deal in getting the most sound and volume out of a drum.
I was taught to listen to all of the instruments in the band and become part of the song.
I was taught to own the beat and not let it vary. I was taught that is was my job to help keep the band playing together on the beat.
I was taught to respect the spaces in the music. The spaces in between the notes are just as important as the notes. A constant note or a constant drum sound with no space is not music.

In 1960 I discovered rock and roll. So I started practicing to rock and roll songs. And I copied the drummers I heard. I’m sure my Dad was not too happy, but I excelled in drum playing and he was happy about that.

Any good teacher will first teach the basic techniques and then the teacher should gladly help you learn to play the music you love. ( Even if the teacher has to study the music you love in order to teach you. )

.
 
I started lessons in 1965, on just a snare, even though I had a kit at home. I learned reading and rudiments in the beginning. Because of space limitations in the "studio", there was only room to add a cymbal, so I had to tap my right foot on the downbeats, and tap my left foot (for closing the hat) on the backbeats, which was the style dating back to (at least) the swing era.

Although I didn't embrace the styles then, there was more of a likelihood to learn swing, shuffles, Latin, and brushwork, because it was all fresh, or at least recent at the time.

It wasn't long before I did graduate to lessons on a kit.

I'll let you know if any of it pays off.

Bermuda
 
Oh yeah, Bermuda just reminded me:

I learned to use the brushes.

And I was taught to rock my left foot heal to toe to play the hi hat.
Heal down on the one, toe down on the two.

I always notice when a drummer is not using his left foot on the hi hat.
Many many young drummers I see today do not play the hi hat with their left foot.
Probably because they use double bass drum pedals.

.
 
I'm pretty much of the opinion that there are pre-digital/internet/youtube drummers and there are post-digital/internet/youtube drummers.

The pre-internet musicians had to slow down albums and reverse engineer parts. Musicians had less overall diversity but were highly original within their genre. Teachers were often mentors, and you could hear a teacher's influence in a students playing.

The post-internet musicians have a remarkable degree of virtuosity. They can play anything they want, and if they cannot, they can hit youtube and have it mastered in short order. Aspiring musicians now have a personal instructor, and access to several dozen virtual-instructors on the internet. You want to learn how to play the purdie shuffle? BAM! Bernard Purdie will magically/instantly appear on your screen and teach you how to do it! This was almost unheard of pre-internet.

As someone that learned guitar pre-internet and drums post-internet, I have to say that I prefer the latter. While I'm a highly unique sounding guitarist, I have to say that the struggle and cost was far too great, and I would have preferred the instantaneous "Whoa, I know kung-foo?" that our new matrix overlord affords us.
 
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I'm pretty much of the opinion that there are pre-digital/internet/youtube drummers and there are post-digital/internet/youtube drummers.

The pre-internet musicians had to slow down albums and reverse engineer parts. Musicians had less overall diversity but were highly original within their genre. Teachers were often mentors, and you could hear a teacher's influence in a students playing.

The post-internet musicians have a remarkable degree of virtuosity. They can play anything they want, and if they cannot, they can hit youtube and have it mastered in short order. Aspiring musicians now have a personal instructor, and access to several dozen virtual-instructors on the internet. You want to learn how to play the prude shuffle? BAM! Bernard Purdie will magically/instantly appear on your screen and teach you how to do it! This was almost unheard of pre-internet.
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I agree with everything you say here

but I would not trade my pre internet learning for anything in the world.....

it forced me to listen to music .... which believe it or not barely happens anymore with young students

a very large percentage of my students... when I ask them what they listen to and what music they enjoy they shrug and look at me as if I just asked them an extremely complex question that they have no answer for

the love for music is gone.

the love and excitement of digging through your parents or older siblings record collection and finding that record that changes your life is gone.

the nights of staying up all night flipping the record or cassette over endlessly while you read every word of the liner notes are gone.

the studying of the music you listen to out of pure love is pretty much gone for the most part.

those years if sitting in my bedroom with my sisters Police records, her Billy Squire records, her Clash records, her KISS records, her Supertramp records, her Zeppelin records, her Billy Joel records.
.... or stealing my moms Slim Whitman albums, her George Jones albums, her Miles Davis albums , her Platters albums , her Temptations albums, her Dave Brubeck albums, all her Disco albums
.... and sitting there with my headphones on just loving and studying what these cats were doing and only knowing what they looked like if there was a picture on the jacket.
I would not trade those times for anything

that is how I learned how to listen to music
that is how I learned to play with other musicians and listen to other musicians
that is how I learned how to use dynamics
that is how I learned to groove, how to make the music feel good
that is where the love and passion came from

I would sit on the drums and try to figure out the drum parts
I would grab the old acoustic guitar and try to figure out the guitar parts
there was an old Fender bass that was always laying around and I would try to pick what the bass player played .
hell.... I would even try to sing these songs I heard and I would make little multi track recordings of myself bouncing from cassette to cassette

all of that is gone and appreciation is at an all time low and is not raising anytime soon
 
I had lessons in the 70s, and most of my stuff was swinging, and brushing, and snare drum reading too. It sorta' dovetailed into learning music theory playing piano and vibraphone too. Without the internet, I went to alot of drum clinics as a kid, and spent alot of time at Disneyland when the jazz stars came every year (Buddy, Louie, and a host of others). And I listened alot to the radio. I would think alot of my training came from the application of concepts, meaning I was seeing and hearing things, and then figuring out how to make that work in my musical situation, rather than learning a bunch of licks that had no connection to what I wanted to use it for. This probably limited me somewhat in what I would execute, but something about "don't mess up the time" was beaten into me at an early age. I also studied with a drum corps and totally got my right-hand rudimental chops going too, but if anything, looking back on my days in training, I probably spent more time doing than theorizing about it, because that's all you could do then. With the internet now, I probably talk about it more than I do it, but I like think I keep a healthy balance.
 
I agree with everything you say here

but I would not trade my pre internet learning for anything in the world.....

it forced me to listen to music .... which believe it or not barely happens anymore with young students

a very large percentage of my students... when I ask them what they listen to and what music they enjoy they shrug and look at me as if I just asked them an extremely complex question that they have no answer for

the love for music is gone.

the love and excitement of digging through your parents or older siblings record collection and finding that record that changes your life is gone.

the nights of staying up all night flipping the record or cassette over endlessly while you read every word of the liner notes are gone.

the studying of the music you listen to out of pure love is pretty much gone for the most part.

those years if sitting in my bedroom with my sisters Police records, her Billy Squire records, her Clash records, her KISS records, her Supertramp records, her Zeppelin records, her Billy Joel records.
.... or stealing my moms Slim Whitman albums, her George Jones albums, her Miles Davis albums , her Platters albums , her Temptations albums, her Dave Brubeck albums, all her Disco albums
.... and sitting there with my headphones on just loving and studying what these cats were doing and only knowing what they looked like if there was a picture on the jacket.
I would not trade those times for anything

that is how I learned how to listen to music
that is how I learned to play with other musicians and listen to other musicians
that is how I learned how to use dynamics
that is how I learned to groove, how to make the music feel good
that is where the love and passion came from

I would sit on the drums and try to figure out the drum parts
I would grab the old acoustic guitar and try to figure out the guitar parts
there was an old Fender bass that was always laying around and I would try to pick what the bass player played .
hell.... I would even try to sing these songs I heard and I would make little multi track recordings of myself bouncing from cassette to cassette

all of that is gone and appreciation is at an all time low and is not raising anytime soon

+1

The wide eyed innocence and joy of listening to a new band or song and working out what the drummer was doing can not be replaced by simply searching the internet for a video of the drum part. Knowing the song inside out, not just the drum part, Is crucial to my playing. I sometimes have to point out to other members of the band that they have played something wrong. And they thought I was just a drummer.
 
+1

The wide eyed innocence and joy of listening to a new band or song and working out what the drummer was doing can not be replaced by simply searching the internet for a video of the drum part. Knowing the song inside out, not just the drum part, Is crucial to my playing. I sometimes have to point out to other members of the band that they have played something wrong. And they thought I was just a drummer.

you said it brother

there is no substitute
 
And in generations to come, YouTube will be considered archaic , because all knowledge will be implanted in your head (for a price) and you won't have to lift a finger.

I do like the availability of stuff now. I would take that over how it used to be. I'm glad I have the perspective of pre and post digital.

I took lessons in the 70's from 2 different guys. Probably not considered back in the day enough. I remember my one teacher was a chain smoker and had one of those waist high ashtray standalone things with the glass dish...totally filled with cigarette butts. My other teacher was a guy who drove to my house in a funky station wagon. Both of those guys had a big impact on how I play. They didn't show me what to play, (I didn't get that far) but both of those guys showed me how to play. Which I am very grateful for.
 
While I agree with most of what was said, I'll have to respectfully disagree that the appreciation of music is gone. While most who have answered have experienced the pre-internet way, post internet has not diminished the appreciation of music for us younger folks. It just depends on where you look. Around my music scene, there are still plenty of kids trying to emulate the great musicians of the 60's and 70's. Maybe the WAY of appreciating has changed, but the degree of joy and passion hasn't.
 
I started taking drum lessons in 1963 from an old black jazz drummer from new orleans. I studied proper grip and stroke using traditional grip. As I got beyond the snare I recall the set lessons to be based on basic styles like samba's, rhumba's boosa nova, cha cha, and shuffle. I learned to use brushes and for a time learned the marimba, yes with two mallets.

My favorite memory is when my teacher and I would straddle opposite sides of the snare and he would have me first listen, then echo what he played and finally play it together. Often asking me to close my eyes while we played. Learn the technique, then learn and feel the music. The first time I matched him strike for strike and did not hear his notes, I asked him why he stopped playing. he said he didn't. That was the first time I felt like a drummer.

I had two other main teachers. All three of them could vocalize the drum parts magnificently. My drum corp teacher especially. You could have miced him and it would have been a better drum part than most people can do with drums.

I think because the early drum set lessons were based on basic styles/beats I had some trouble on my own when I started playing in rock oriented bands. I think this was the most critical time of my development and I did not take lessons at that time. When I see someone like Ian Pace describing a song and he says it is mostly prardiddles around the set for this whole section, I realized I missed an important stage of my drum education.

My conclusion, based on my experiences, is that years ago more time was spent on the basics before tring to apply it to contemporary music. It seems, based on what I hear newer teachers discuss, is that today you try to get them playing a song they like much sooner.
 
When I took lessons back in the "50's" my teacher taught out of three books, Chapin,Stick Control and Haskall Hare(spl) most of learning was just playing along to my LP's(rember those)
 
Uncle Larry has a great story of trying to learn a Deep Purple tune, I think it was Fireball, off the record. He didn't know that Ian Pace used a double kick on the record so he ended up learning to play it with one foot.

Yea, it was Fireball. Looking back, I merely approximated it on a single pedal, I can't do those continuous fast 8ths on a single pedal at that speed. At the time, I didn't hear it as continuous, I thought the kick stopped for the snare hit. Every drum part I know is really my best interpretation of what I think I'm hearing, not necessarily what's actually being played lol.
 
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