I can't play and count out loud.oh!

paleto

Junior Member
Am I the only one to find this a nightmare? the voice becomes an extra limb that has to be coordinated.after 25 years playing...can it be learnt?
 
I've been a guitarist for 21 yrs and I'm into drumming for 15 months now. I tried counting out loud just a few times, I also feel it's hard. Usually I'm just not counting but trying to play as precisely as possible. Do we need to count in the first place? It's a great plus to be able to do so, but is it a must? Hopefully not ;-)
 
That's a very common problem, and it's exactly for the reason you state: The voice is like a fifth limb which needs to be coordinated.

It won't take you that long to work out though. Just practice it slow and build it up, and you'll have it in no time at all. As far as limbs go, the voice is easily the simplest to work into your coordination :)
 
saying it or singing it gets you closer to playing it, if you cant hear what you are trying to do, how is the brain supposed to make the limbs make the sound? Been years since i had my copy, but doesn't the New Breed book instruct you to sing the lines first before trying to execute them? And yes it is hard, slow down and persevere it, nothing comes without some dedicated time, well for most of us mortals anyhow.
 
saying it or singing it gets you closer to playing it, if you cant hear what you are trying to do, how is the brain supposed to make the limbs make the sound? Been years since i had my copy, but doesn't the New Breed book instruct you to sing the lines first before trying to execute them? And yes it is hard, slow down and persevere it, nothing comes without some dedicated time, well for most of us mortals anyhow.

Sing, not count!

/20chqr
 
I've been a guitarist for 21 yrs and I'm into drumming for 15 months now. I tried counting out loud just a few times, I also feel it's hard. Usually I'm just not counting but trying to play as precisely as possible. Do we need to count in the first place? It's a great plus to be able to do so, but is it a must? Hopefully not ;-)
I find it helps with a few things:

a) it helps me when I'm trying to place single hits or fills in the right place
b) It helps me to get a new groove right. If I count it out with the emphasis in the right place I can play it more easily.
c) it helps to know exactly where you are in the song/groove/bar etc. This can help in occasional disputes with the rest of the band (it has happened to me)
d) Actually, re c) It's your job to *know* where the band is in terms of beats, so get that counting learned! You're just not a proper drummer if you're not doing this, IMO
 
I've never counted. When I started playing, the guy who mentored me was a counter. It just never appealed to me though. It's not a bad approach and there are some songs I have to count on in the instrumental parts. For the most part, I just stay tuned into the singer. Currently, I am the singer in the band and it takes a little practice, but I couldn't imagine trying to count while I'm concentrating on singing good too.
 
Hey.
I personally have difficulties counting while playing. What has worked for me is to practice a lot to a very slow click, in that way you get to internalize the subdivisions so that you can feel them instead of saying them. Yet another thing which applies to odd meters is to hear the beat as a melody instead of counting the subdivisions.
 
I can't count along to everything and I don't count all the time. I try to do it sometimes tho with any groove I master as I feel it helps solidify my understanding of the groove.

Another way I sometimes do it is just to say 'one' at every one. It all helps to get it nailed down I find.

It's a bit like the discussion of where you feel time on another thread. Counting is another way of feeling it, but it adds conscious knowledge about where you are in the groove/tune.
 
Am I the only one to find this a nightmare? the voice becomes an extra limb that has to be coordinated.after 25 years playing...can it be learnt?

Try to watch the DVD "The Language of Drumming" by Benny Greb, there's a section within his concept were he's actually using words or short phrases instead of counting numbers.

Exemple: Triplets = 3, counting 1 - 2 - 3, word for triplets: Radio, counting Ra - di - o

Or Septuplets = 7, counting 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7, phrase for septuplets: Listen to the radio, counting Li - sten - to - the -ra - di - o

Use your imagination to create phrases and words that can be broken in the numbers that you want/need to count. It might be easier?

Hope this helps
 
Yes it can be learned, it's basically a 5th limb in terms of independence (coordination). I have students cont a lot of stuff, or count the pulse as the playing is busier and/or syncopated around it.
 
Absolutely it can be learned! It's not fun, but it can be done. I've never understood why drummers refer to it as 4 way independence...I've always thought of it as 5 way independence...the brain has to be in there for you to count the other 4 limbs in time!
 
Try to watch the DVD "The Language of Drumming" by Benny Greb, there's a section within his concept were he's actually using words or short phrases instead of counting numbers.

Exemple: Triplets = 3, counting 1 - 2 - 3, word for triplets: Radio, counting Ra - di - o

Or Septuplets = 7, counting 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7, phrase for septuplets: Listen to the radio, counting Li - sten - to - the -ra - di - o

Use your imagination to create phrases and words that can be broken in the numbers that you want/need to count. It might be easier?

Hope this helps


That's the best one I've heard for septuplets....doing them at my desk now.
 
Try to watch the DVD "The Language of Drumming" by Benny Greb, there's a section within his concept were he's actually using words or short phrases instead of counting numbers.

Exemple: Triplets = 3, counting 1 - 2 - 3, word for triplets: Radio, counting Ra - di - o

Or Septuplets = 7, counting 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7, phrase for septuplets: Listen to the radio, counting Li - sten - to - the -ra - di - o

Use your imagination to create phrases and words that can be broken in the numbers that you want/need to count. It might be easier?

Hope this helps

My kids are learning violin and cello under the Suzuki method.

The very first chunk of lessons addresses subdivision. They use

Caterpillar Caterpillar - for 8ths
Pineapple Pineapple - for triplet
Very Hungry Caterpillar, Very Hungry Caterpillar - for 32ths

I reckon these are better than Benny's. LOL
 
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