DW Performance Series

Can they just say they're renaming PDP Platinums because that's basically what they're doing, except for the fact they're keeping PDP Platinums too?
 
"Stephen, why would I go out to California to preview some drums made in Mexico? I said forget it, I'm not interested."
]

This attitude is part of what DW need to address. The idea that drums made in Mexico are inferior per se is illogical. However, in order to reduce costs DW have elected to move production to Mexico, and so what do they expect their customers to make of that?

The Fender analogy is too well established for the customers to blindly accept the idea that the quality of a Performance kit will be the same as a custom kit, even though it could be the case.

Davo
 
It's like comparing a Camry to a Lexus. Same company, different perception. The subtleties are in the fit and finish and overall performance/luxury options.

Pretty good analogy, and it brings up another point. I would not necessarily keep a nicer car as a daily workhorse when the cheaper alternative will do. A quick look at the Camry's sales figures should illustrate that I am not unique there.

Similarly, with drums, it's nice to have a killer top-end kit, but it's more realistic to use something more economical, especially when you are gigging on a regular basis. In DW-land, the PDP Platinums are supposed to fill such a role, but I'm thinking DW wants to offer something that is more "in the family" than PDP. I'll bet that to a DW fan, those round lugs and that logo on the front head mean as much as the sound of the kit (right or wrong), and that such a product has more appeal on THAT basis than the Plats with their strange tube lugs and the "wrong" logo on the front head.

As far as being made in America herself, I would be less concerned about that kind of stuff with a working kit, and just focus on its ability to do the job at hand. If I can get ten or fifteen or more good years out of the kit playing shows and so forth, who gives a rip what the resale will be, or what country it popped out of? It's like people who buy houses and then get all concerned about it's resale value. What, are you Donald Trump now? You are buying a place to live....possibly for the rest of your days. Does THAT not have any value in itself; the sheer utility of the thing in question?

If Toyota ONLY sold Lexus in America, they probably would not have the success they currently enjoy here.
 
Can they just say they're renaming PDP Platinums because that's basically what they're doing, except for the fact they're keeping PDP Platinums too?

I would think perception, especially among their endorsers, could be a reason why the drums look to be essentially the same.

I can imagine the number of calls Don Lombardi and John Good get "hey, yeah, these PDP drums sounds awesome out here on the road, but why do I only get the PDP kit when so-and-so gets the DW name kit for their tour? Do you really think I'm only 2nd rate?"

So slap a DW logo on a PDP kit, and problem solved.
 
DW is going to seriously damage its brand and dilute the value of the drums. If I were a DW owner, I'd be disappointed in the company for choosing to do this. For those who care about such things (and a lot of DW owners do, I suspect), they will always be fending off questions like "So are those the Mexican DWs? How do they sound compared to real DWs?"

i actually agree with this. As someone who is in branding and advertising AND who owns a DW as well, i think this is a bad move. Yes they will sell more drums, but it will damage the reputation of it. However, like fender, they will get the "well is that a real DW"? So the damage will only be slight.

Taylor guitars has a fantastic name. Their cheapest Taylor guitar is like a $500 baby guitar that is lacking any kind of frills at all. If you want a mid line taylor, you going to have to pop off 4 figures easily. They are exclusive and if you see anyone playing a Taylor, you know IMMEDIATELY that it is a high end guitar -- very special. If Taylor started making a mid-line guitar, the specialness of that headstock goes away. Until now, when you see that DW badge and sticker and lug, you KNOW what it is. Brand recognition is EVERYTHING to a company. Part of the reason that DW is so coveted is because of this -- shallow as you think it is, its the truth. Its part of the reason i bought mine. Now if it sounded like crap or built like crap, i wouldnt have bought it. But it sounded and was built every bit as good as i thought it would be.

I go to an audition with my DW and i am taken seriously before i even play the first note. You pay for that. I can just see it now "oh a DW -- cool -- is that a real one?". As bullshit as it sounds, it will happen. DW arguably has the best name in drums (that extends beyond drummers) -- why screw with that? To sell a few more kits? I don't think its smart at all. Just my opinion.
 
Another case in point re: resale. Note the set below. 1918 Leedy 28" on right 1930 32" Slingerland on left, Rogers 'script' toms. Played them for years, pictured here at Crossroads Of The World recording studios on Sunset, Graham Nash's old LA studio. 33 song rock opera featuring Todd Rungren.

Now I want a custom kit to my own personal specs. Can you spell R-E-S-A-L-E-V-A-L-U-E?

I paid $45 for the Leedy in 1985, sold it for $1,000.00 last year. Paid $100 for the Slingerland in '87 sold it for $1,300.00 last week. The 3 Rogers 'script logo' toms I sold for $1,800 to a collector in Memphis TN back in August. I paid $300 for those in 1990.

Yes, resale value does have it's points. I'm now able, with that money from these to have a custom kit made to my specs, with a finish of my choice. 28" BD, 15" rack, 18" & 20" Floors w/re-rings, rounded bearing's, N.A. Maple, cast hoops. Matching 6.5 40/snare. Undecided yet on Champagne Sparkle or White Marine Pearl.



Listen to the two first songs on my signature below. That kit is a Ludwig ACCENT import kit....it's all in the tuning...and the sound engineer...LOL.

If that's what works for you, I see no reason to slam it. I'm just saying that I tend to go for the utility factor. These are tools to me, and someday the tools of my trade if I can pull it off. Similarly, my interest in buying a house would lie in the fact that I can play my drums there, where an apartment complex would not put up with THAT for very long; the house rules.

But, now we're off topic...

All of this could be for naught, anyway. I have yet to hear the Performance kits, so who knows. I HAVE heard and played on proper DW kits and I KNOW that I like the way they work, so I may end getting a Collectors Series kit (or four) anyway. Even so, my decision to go that route would be the same as my decisions to buy pro-grade Sabian Cymbals, pro-grade DW pedals and hardware, etc, etc. I bought all of those things because I needed them to perform a specific task, and I needed proven performance. The only thing I've skimped on for years now are the tubs themselves, and the more these new drums are discussed and dissected, the more I think I would rather take the financial hit and finally get some pro-grade drums.

Even then, I'm just not that worried about the resale. I figure I'll be watching grass grow from underneath before I seriously consider getting rid of really nice drums. As for not-so-nice drums...I just don't expect to get that back money-wise. My Pearl Exports from 1998 were nowhere near as well put together as even a PDP X7 kit, but they were easy to get on a tight budget, served me well for 12 years and I couldn't ask for much more, all things considered.

I think we're just looking at things like this from two very different angles, but that IS the point of this place.
 
i actually agree with this. As someone who is in branding and advertising AND who owns a DW as well, i think this is a bad move. Yes they will sell more drums, but it will damage the reputation of it. However, like fender, they will get the "well is that a real DW"? So the damage will only be slight.

Taylor guitars has a fantastic name. Their cheapest Taylor guitar is like a $500 baby guitar that is lacking any kind of frills at all. If you want a mid line taylor, you going to have to pop off 4 figures easily. They are exclusive and if you see anyone playing a Taylor, you know IMMEDIATELY that it is a high end guitar -- very special. If Taylor started making a mid-line guitar, the specialness of that headstock goes away. Until now, when you see that DW badge and sticker and lug, you KNOW what it is. Brand recognition is EVERYTHING to a company. Part of the reason that DW is so coveted is because of this -- shallow as you think it is, its the truth. Its part of the reason i bought mine. Now if it sounded like crap or built like crap, i wouldnt have bought it. But it sounded and was built every bit as good as i thought it would be.

I go to an audition with my DW and i am taken seriously before i even play the first note. You pay for that. I can just see it now "oh a DW -- cool -- is that a real one?". As bullshit as it sounds, it will happen. DW arguably has the best name in drums (that extends beyond drummers) -- why screw with that? To sell a few more kits? I don't think its smart at all. Just my opinion.

I see it as a branding issue as well. I am in marketing - from the PR side - and your success is measured by how deeply and how many people fall in love with your brand. As I am sure you know that in many cases, it just takes a dedicated minority of people who love your brand to drive perception among the others. If DW alienates that dedicated segment (which is probably a majority, as is the case with high-end, upmarket items), their brand will suffer and people who made an investment in exclusivity will feel ripped off.

Of course, some other company can fill the void and proudly announce their drums are made the US and you can buy with full confidence that you're getting the real deal, not some watered-down Third World import. At least, that's what I'd say if I were a competitor trying to dethrone DW. DW is certainly providing an opening.
 
I've always said that it's not the drums, it's the drummer that counts. That said, the DW drums made in Mexico may indeed measure up to the US manufacturer in every way, but the stigma that will remain if not addressed will be the resale value or depreciation consequence.

I played the Plats in the shop and gave them a thorough work out, and they seemed to be very decent drums, but there's that little engraving on the badge that says "Made In Mexico" and THAT signifies a lesser quality, at least in the eyes of a collector or purist. Regardless of the excellence of the item, there is that bump in the road.

It's like comparing a Camry to a Lexus. Same company, different perception. The subtleties are in the fit and finish and overall performance/luxury options.

I suppose I can sum it up in four words. Same thing, only different. And for a lot of us, it's that difference that will be the deciding purchase factor.


You make a very good point. Even if the Mexican drums are identical to the US drums, they're never going to be worth as much for resale. That does matter to some people.
 
This might hurt their "image," yes, which I agree is a mainstay of the company. But it will only hurt it, not destroy it. Add to that the fact that they're probably going to sell tons of these and make tons of money; I think it was actually quite a wise business decision.

I don't like it though. I'm gona cringe the first time I get asked whether my drums are "real" or not!
 
This might hurt their "image," yes, which I agree is a mainstay of the company. But it will only hurt it, not destroy it. Add to that the fact that they're probably going to sell tons of these and make tons of money; I think it was actually quite a wise business decision.

I don't like it though. I'm gona cringe the first time I get asked whether my drums are "real" or not!

Agreed.

I've been waiting for these to come out before I decide on them or a Renown kit. The Gretsch Renowns are already established as Pro drums with a great reputation. If made of the same wood and quality construction as their US counterpart, the DW Performance Series might well be on par with the Renowns.

However, I'd really hate to have my shiny new DW drums be thought of as the 'junior' lesser model of it's 'big brother' US made counterpart when I could have been sitting behind a 'pro quality' Renown.

I want to be really stoked on my new drums. I know it's shallow on my part but I really don't want my new drums thought of as something to use until I can afford a 'real' kit. So far, based on comments here and at other forums I'm a little leery of the stigma these new drums may have get before they even hit the market.

The safe bet would be for me to just buy a Renown kit but I'd hate to regret that I passed on owning a new DW kit when I had the chance. I guess it's best to hold off and see how the rep of the Performance Series plays out.
 
DW is going to seriously damage its brand and dilute the value of the drums. If I were a DW owner, I'd be disappointed in the company for choosing to do this. For those who care about such things (and a lot of DW owners do, I suspect), they will always be fending off questions like "So are those the Mexican DWs? How do they sound compared to real DWs?"

People keep bringing up this point and I don't understand where it's coming from. Look at it this way.

The Export, Session, Vision and Forum series have done no damage to Pearl, nor does anybody mistake them for a Reference or Masterworks kit.

Tama's Starclassic Performers, Superstar and Imerialstar don't seem to be wrecking their business or reputation.

Force 3007 and 2007 drums are brought to you by the same people who make the Designer series and SQ2. They even had the nerve to put "Sonor" on the front heads of THOSE drums too.

Ludwig Rockers and Accents, Premier XPK, APK and Cabria, Mapex Meridian, Yamaha Rock Tour, Gretsch Catalinas, GMS SL series; guess what they all have in common?

None of those companies felt the need to create a whole other company in order to sell affordable drums. Every one of those drum lines carry the company's name and logo from top to bottom. DW had to create PDP? You can't tell me that DW is not in the same pantheon as the other mainstream makers, not anymore. And, is anybody going to tell me with a straight face that PDP has enjoyed a stellar reputation since they showed up ten years ago?

DW could have introduced Pacific as a series within the DW catalog (a notch or two below the Workshops) and it would not have been any worse for the company than it has been for any other drum maker. I don't understand why we are singling out DW about this. It's like that "is DW worth the money" thread. Why just DW. What about Pearl Masterworks or OCDP or Sonor SQ2 or anything from Spaun, SJC, Trick or Truth?

If anybody is still hanging on to the illusion that DW is their exclusive little drum company, then their poopaganda is working better on you than me. DW is big time now, and they have been for ten to fifteen years. These ain't no Bradys or D'Amicos anymore. I might just argue that DW has hurt themselves already with the PDP nonsense. Pacific never should have been a brand name. Understand as well that this is coming from a DW fanboy. I'm lining up the cash to buy two DW kits over the next year or so, so I am biased about them.

I think the bigger scandal is why DW is "not allowed" to trade on their good name on EVERY level the same way the Pearl, Tama, Sonor, etc. have done for years now.
 
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People keep bringing up this point and I don't understand where it's coming from. Look at it this way.

The Export, Session, Vision and Forum series have done no damage to Pearl, nor does anybody mistake them for a Reference or Masterworks kit.

.

Companies that wish to put themselves at the high end of the market will often deliberately not have anything in the mid- to low-range. Can you get an entry-level Lexus? Entry-level Rolex? Those brands are serious about branding themselves as exclusive, elite and expensive, because that's the market segment they are aiming for. In their view, if they made an entry-level line, it would reduce the exclusiveness of their brand, and people are willing to pay for exclusiveness. Whether that's right or wrong or makes sense to us isn't relevant here. Some companies build their brand on this, just as others build it on the low end of the market.

DW has done something much different than just create a lower-cost line. They're seeking to cash in on their exclusiveness, while cutting corners in other areas. As a result, many more people will be playing DWs, diluting the exclusiveness that others thought they were investing in. Of course, life isn't fair and them is the breaks, but I suspect DW will lose much of the exclusive end of the market when they do this. People will be asking, "Are those real DWs, or the Mexican knock-offs."
 
The reality with drum kit purchases is 99% of the people end up buying what they can afford, not necessarily what they want.

DW is hoping the PERFORMER series cuts them more sales and IMO its probably a good bet.

We've all plugged away here on DRUMMERWORLD the fact that PDP isn't really that far removed sound wise from the big money Dubs and who wants to do hard road gig's with $3K DW's?

PERFORMER will make the DW hi-end even more hi-end and worth it.
 
I can see that, DMC, although I tend to disagree with the attitude behind it. My sister compared the whole argument to Airwalk's decision to start selling their shoes at Payless. Yes, a great many people who bought Airwalks as a status symbol lost interest in the brand, and obviously those people who dropped 200 bucks on a pair of shoes that were now going for 50 bucks (or whatever. I never gave a sh*t about things like that) probably felt a bit ripped off.

From THAT perspective, I can see where people regarding DW as exclusive or a status symbol would pooh-pooh their decision to "lower" the brand name in this way. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I just don't see DW as that kind of company anymore, and certainly not as a fashion statement or status symbol.

Now, if drummers are so un-savvy that they can't tell the difference between a Jazz or Collector's kit and a Performance series kit, I don't see that as a DW problem. That's a "drummers need to pull their heads outta their butts" problem. I'm quite certain that there will be a number of distinguishing features that separate these from the regular top of the line stuff, much the same way that Pearl Visions are noticeably different from Masterworks. It won't be quite as ambiguous as Fender Strats, which really don't have many outwardly distinguishing features between American and Mexican versions (That I know of. I am a drummer, after all!).
 
Mike, that's true. You can only tell the diference between the Fenders by looking at the tiny writing on the headstock or by looking at the screw plate on the back of the body. If you are, say in the audience but close, you cannot tell the difference.


Davo
 
That converts to $1789 = £1130 for a 10", 12", 14" Toms and 20" FT and 14" x 5" snare.

That compares to $1138 = £718 for the PDP Platinums.

Davo
 
The choice of drum sizes:

•10"x8" Tom, 12"x9" Tom, 14"x12" Floor Tom and 14"x5.5" snare
or
•12"x9" Tom, 16"x14" Floor Tom, 14"x6.5" snare

coupled with these kick drum options:

20" x 16"
22" x 18"
24" x 18"

The first group of drum sizes would suit me just right along with a 20"x 16" kick.

Davo
 
Companies that wish to put themselves at the high end of the market will often deliberately not have anything in the mid- to low-range. Can you get an entry-level Lexus? Entry-level Rolex? Those brands are serious about branding themselves as exclusive, elite and expensive, because that's the market segment they are aiming for. In their view, if they made an entry-level line, it would reduce the exclusiveness of their brand, and people are willing to pay for exclusiveness. Whether that's right or wrong or makes sense to us isn't relevant here. Some companies build their brand on this, just as others build it on the low end of the market.

DW has done something much different than just create a lower-cost line. They're seeking to cash in on their exclusiveness, while cutting corners in other areas. As a result, many more people will be playing DWs, diluting the exclusiveness that others thought they were investing in. Of course, life isn't fair and them is the breaks, but I suspect DW will lose much of the exclusive end of the market when they do this. People will be asking, "Are those real DWs, or the Mexican knock-offs."

I see your point, but the economies of scale are drastically different.
Lexus probably sells more cars in an average year than the entire drum industry does in year in drum sets. Drums are a relatively niche market in the global economy. And within the drum industry, DW is a small company, even though they have a relatively high profile.

In drum marketing, brand loyalty can be pretty strong. What has driven Pearl and Tama high end sales is kids buy entry level Pearl and Tama kits, and after they're ready to move up, many stick with the same brand.

The one thing that has held DW back from being on the same level of Pearl or Tama is they have lacked a lower end kit to get people in the door, and to build that brand loyalty from an early age. And from a pure $ stand point, Pearl and Tama rake in far more money than DW can even dream of from all those lower end sales.

So yes, DW may lose some credibility as being the Rolex of drums, but being a niche player in a niche market means the company has to remain small. It's a very limiting place to be.
 
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