Getting Kids to count

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
I have noticed that it can all too often be very difficult to get young students to count. There is a direct relation between counting and playing the drums well. Drummers count; that's what we do. We're not guitar players. How do teachers work to get kids over the hump of not wanting, or not thinking 'they' need to count?
 
Hit the students over the head with your sticks every time they're not counting.

Seriously though, I think the reason why a lot of kids don't want to count is because they think it makes them look stupid. Some way, somehow, you gotta get that idea out of their heads. I'm no teacher, though, so it's up to you and whoever can give advice.
 
I can't count past 1 2 3 4. When you add in the e and the thes I get really confused and flustered. It doesn't help me at all.
 
Counting is just essential. People/kids who aren't willing to count are just stubborn and obviously don't have what it takes to engage in a serious educational/musical pursuit. It's really just a commitment issue.
 
Maybe they are too young to count. ???

As a general rule, I won't take any kids under 12 or 13 years of age.

How old are the kids you are teaching?

I also don't use the "E" either. Not sure about this one, I guess listening to some tracks and counting 4's over and over with them. That's what I would do until they can hear it and start getting the hang of it.
 
Counting is just essential. People/kids who aren't willing to count are just stubborn and obviously don't have what it takes to engage in a serious educational/musical pursuit. It's really just a commitment issue.

Well, maybe they are too young? or maybe they don't really hear the timing and all the 4's in there. That alone would frustrate anyone of any age if they can't associate counting the 4's and hearing them in the music at the same time. ????
 
Well, maybe they are too young? or maybe they don't really hear the timing and all the 4's in there. That alone would frustrate anyone of any age if they can't associate counting the 4's and hearing them in the music at the same time. ????

I have done this with 4, 5, 6 and 8 year olds. They count and they get it. So it's not an age thing. When they count, it is amazing what they can actually accomplish. When they don't count, it is a major obstacle. I think sometimes it is a committment thing; other times it may be that there is some disconnect. a block, between the numbers and the rhythms. Other times it is like Anne, said, I think they "just feel stupid." I had a teacher in Catholic school who used to hit the kids with a drum stick. Needless to say, I aced his class. :)
 
It's music theory vs. playing music. It's playing the drums vs. playing a song. Counting becomes second nature, but it has to be learned when one is starting out or it won't be natural at all.

It's like saying, "I can play the intro to YYZ." vs. "I can play in 5/4." If you're not counting, it may be difficult to play another song in 5/4, while you can play YYZ like it's on repeat.
 
It's not just kids that don't want to count or can't count out the song - it's adults too.

I ran into this last week. We were rehearsing a song and our leader / lead guitar player had difficulty explaining to me when he wanted me to come in, because he didn't know.

I had him play his intro and counted out loud the "1, 2, 3,4", "2, 2, 3, 4", "3, 2, 3, 4", etc. before we finally agreed where his solo ends and I come in. I even had to explain where the quarter note rests were and how many eighth notes in a 1 measure 4/4 cresendo.

AAhhhh!!!

But this dude is our "leader"! Then our bass guitar player who is a software engineer by training had to re-affirm this to him. When he finally got another's opinion he decided the drummer (me) actually knows what he is talking about!!

I wanted to punch the dude! Do some guitar players not understand counting and measures??!!! Geez!!

This is also the leader dude that completely balks and fusses when I play a snare part in a 4/4 measure or two on the off beats: 1 AND, 2 AND, 3 AND, 4 AND. My bass is on 1 and 3 or 1,2,3, and 4 and I play the snare part on the off beat to liven up a bluegrass song. I hear the "don't do that it throws me off" line. Geez! Some people just can't find a beat.
 
When I sense that a student is not counting, I will allow the student to become frustrated. I will let them attempt something 4 or 5 times. When they are convinced that they can't play it, I will have them count. Most of the time, they will play 100% better when they count. I will then say something like, "You played it 5 times without counting and made no progress. Then you counted and everything fell into place." I'm hoping to get that a-ha moment with them.

Other times (especially with younger children), I will have them count out loud. If they stop counting, I will stop them. Then we will start the piece over again. They soon learn that to keep going, they need to keep counting.

Jeff
 
Perhaps you could use a click that has a voice that counts for them until they get used to the drum part. It was hard for me a first to count AND play at the same time so I used a click, but now I can even sing most of the time when I play.
 
Kids do struggle with counting but the rewards are worth the effort.

I've accepted the fact that I'm going to encounter resistance in the counting dept., but that resistance doesn't keep me from getting it across. I look my students right in the eye and say, "Look, counting is difficult at first, but I KNOW that you have the ability to count and play at the same time, and I also know that once you do, you'll be a better drummer." I think kids are looking for their teacher to give them confidence and direction. Also, once they see that I'm serious about the counting thing, they accept it.

If they're really resisting, (this happens with kids who've already been playing awhile, but never learned to count) I'll say, "I'm sorry, but I can't let you move on until you can COUNT this comfortably, even if you PLAY it correctly w/out counting." Kids often think that they are learning counting so that "Page 13, Exercise No. 2" will be correct. That's not true. They're learning counting because they will have a better sense of rhythm, reading, and learning by ear, than if they don't learn counting. Remind them of that. I'll take the sticks away and work on just counting and clapping sometimes to get the point across, I also have them write the counts in their books. It's just something I'm firm about, and kids get it after a few lessons. Quite often it becomes a kind of bonding experience actually, because they struggle with it, then they get it! and that gives them a little more faith that they can learn other things that are difficult.
 
I never count, even in add time signitures. It's not that i cant count, and if you want me to i dont have problem with counting, or singing any limb independentley. But when im playing im playing to the melody.
 
Ask them to count aloud with a metronome.
 
I never count, even in add time signitures. It's not that i cant count, and if you want me to i dont have problem with counting, or singing any limb independentley. But when im playing im playing to the melody.

Well, yeah, I don't count while I'm playing either, but (I'm making the leap to assume you learned how I did) we learned how to count note values until it became ingrained enough that we don't need to. Beginners have to learn to count it until they can just feel it, and not put the cart before the horse.
 
I wanted to punch the dude! Do some guitar players not understand counting and measures??!!! Geez!!

Many guitarists just don't have any internal timekeeping ability. I find this extraordinary, but there you go.
 
Many guitarists just don't have any internal timekeeping ability. I find this extraordinary, but there you go.


I find that extraordinary as well. The first thing I learned in drum lessons is counting and the "beat" Even when I took guitar lessons for maybe 2 or 3 lessons waaayyy back, my teacher taught me 2 chords, 1 song, and how to count and listen for and find the beat. Pretty simple stuff!

Then again, I've had guitar players tell me that they can keep a beat to save their lives !
 
I'd make them stop what their doing at lessons and just give them exercises they HAVE to count to play like syncopated parts, to show them how important it is
 
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